Dell had the Inspiron Duo two to three years prior that used a wild spinning screen, contained in a ring frame, that was functionally similar but less useful at partial open/close, because the top of the ring obstructed the screen. https://www.wired.com/2011/02/dell-inspiron-duo/
The best use case I've imagined is to obscure the keyboard so that you can practice touch typing, or to squeeze it onto the food tray of a airplane/bus seat, where there isn't space for a clamshell screen to open up.
This one looks about as impressive (meh), but the trackpad gives it some sexiness...
R7 was/still is the best design. I am sorry there were no new versions.
I am even writing this on my beloved R7, with everything possible upgraded or refreshed. It still works, but I am worried what I'll buy after it is gone.
And yes, Surface Laptop Studio reminds me of my R7. However, they were not brave enough to position the keyboard down and the touchpad up, which is a great design.
But still, I might buy it, just because it reminds me of the R7.
Overclocked quad cores in the Surface Studios… When my 1.35kg ROG Flow X13 has an 8 core and the same RTX3050Ti in the same form factor (and the ROG is even thinner). I guess in Microsoft’s world 4 cores are all you need?
It's almost never worked like that but we'll see. 8 cores utilized fully in the same power budget will typically outperform 4 because of how the power efficiency curves work.
This doesn’t really make sense. It’s not as if an 8 core processor has to run all 8 cores at the same time; if a workload only uses 4 cores then the other 4 cores will be idling and consuming almost no power. If a workload requires more than 4 cores then the Surface studio will get bottlenecked and slow down while the 8 core will run fine
Removable SSD on the pro 8... The advertising and websites are pretty unclear. It looks kind of like only 128 and 256GB SSDs would be removable, 512 and 1TB would not? What's the actual configuration with the larger SSDs and are they still removable?
Huh, why wouldn't 512GB and 1TB be removable? I imagine MS is using Toshiba 2230 SSDs that come in 128-1TB configuration. It is just that 1TB isn't really upgradeable because there is no 2TB 2230 drive yet.
Surprising timing that they didn't wait for Alder Lake and also no Ryzen option. Also, is the Surface Book not being refreshed and Surface Studio is the replacement?
I wonder why MS decided to use 35W Tiger lake stuff. Those seem the worst laptop chips ever - overclocked 15W ones without any meaningful benefits. Grab 45W ones and configure them to 35W and you are getting a much better part in every respect.
Probably paid handsomely by Intel for the sake of "relationship". Judging by this disappointing event, they're gonna need that money in the coming months.
Alder seems to be half a year away for laptops and devices are likely even more out. MS can refresh then, no sense to wait. Ryzen doesn't offer TB4 natively, though I would still rather have Ryzen and ordinary USB-C 3.x.
True, SB is not being refreshed, but I hope Laptop Studio is addition to the (boring) Laptop lineup, not replacement for Book. (Surface Studio - without Laptop - is a completely different device that is also not getting refreshed)
Oh I thought Alder Lake was holiday launch my bad. Yeah Surface Studio hasn’t been upgraded in a while. AMD has enough time to integrate TB4 though. Looking at MS history, they might use the current Ryzen series late next year.
Thunderbolt offers nothing over USB-C for 99% of consumers and AMD isn't going to waste precious die space integrating a technology that almost nobody wants or needs, never mind that few can afford.
what it does do for certain people is when you have things like an egpu or say some storage device that is thunderbolt, not USB, it just makes it a WHOLE lot easier for the consumer rather than finding out after the 200$ dock they ordered that was in tons of shipment delays and it doesn't work because its a thunderbolt dock not USB, also thunderbolt is still the faster connection and more versatile connection as well. It's more about not being stranded, like having a barrel plug power after but also having USB-C so you're not totally limited with surface connect.
But Surfaces are also aimed at enterprise. It would probably be attractive to companies that have invested in Thunderbolt docks that work with Lenovo/HP/Dell/etc computers and not need to fork extra for a proprietary Surface connect dock that does exactly the same thing.
Hell, Call it the Surface pro Type R! make it a little fatter with more heatsink to allow 25w power budget as a point of difference to allow the ryzen and its GPU to fly.
The current Surface Pro 7+ already runs in 28 watt mode, yet the fanless i5 doesn't even warm up. I have mine set to idle at the 2.4 GHz base clock because it's overzealous about trying to shave off a fraction of 1 watt while it's barely above room temperature.
...which raises further questions about the obese Laptop Studio stuck with the same CPU.
High end Tiger Lake parts are fast and relatively energy efficient. Alder Lake is another Intel part not a revelation. At 35W TDP or below Tiger Lake is a sensibly specced CPU for the Surface Laptop Studio. The upgrade over what other run-of-the-mill Surface devices offer is the GPU and making allowance for a powerful GPU makes very good sense on this new product (just as it did on the Surface Book and the Surface Studio).
The Surface Book is a great product with many of the virtues of the Surface Laptop Studio in a detachable configuration that arguably would satisfy the needs of many users better than this new tablety laptop. I don't know the answer to your question but it would be a miserable thing to cut short the life of the Surface Book for the sake of the Surface Laptop Studio.
Microsoft probably can't make Qualcomm to build a better SoC (or at least doesn't want to spend the money to force the issue), but the SQ1/SQ2 are getting a bit long in the tooth.
I'd really love to see what the latest and greatest generation ARM cores bring to the table for Windows on ARM performance.
Maybe Microsoft can go the Google route and build their own ARM SoC or commission someone other than Qualcomm to build something that's actually modern at time of release.
An extremely low number of people want a Windows device that has to run Windows apps through emulation. They've tried to push them over and over again.
All critical applications will be built for ARM in time and higher performance ARM chips are coming - the NUVIA/Qualcomm SoC should be pretty good. No one is being forced to run Windows apps in emulation. Early Windows on ARM adopters (and everything is still at an early stage) will primarily be interested in the low power draw and energy efficiency of ARM parts which will be great for tablets and fanless laptops. If anyone needs to run x86 application binaries on ARM and they don't like the performance they won't be buying ARM but that won't stop the progress of WoA. None of this will be happening overnight. (For the record, x86 applications already run well on ARM, namely x86 Mac applications on the Apple M1 SoC, but that is no help to Windows users, unfortunately.)
According to Microsoft website, Surface Pro 8 supports Dolby Vision as well, it's not only for Laptop Studio. This probably means the display will eventually go beyond sRGB.
Apple is killing it with their: - SoC's (CPU, GPU, and everything else) - Hardware (Just feels great, no huge QC issues, like for instance, GPD devices) - Software (their SDK is tight, Swift is revolutionary, Metal is great)
What I don't know about is how Apple's is going from a UI viewpoint. The Apple Watch UI isn't good in my humble opinion. The iPhone X UI felt janky/less intuitive to me, not sure if they've kept it the same, gotten worse, or made improvements since. Their iPadOS seems good for the iPad Mini as a mostly consuming device rather productivity. Not sure if iPadOS is actually good or powerful when it's on a large iPad Pro. I don't know how the latest iOS (sorry macOS X) experience is on the 2020 M1 MacBook Pro laptops. I don't know about the AppleTV's UI it could be good or bad. Their Apple CarPlay however is surprisingly pleasant to use.
...is there anyone who has an accurate opinion (are they killing it) on their UI status?
I'd temper the praise of their software / development ecosystem (but fully agree that hardware and chips are top notch). Swift is hardly revolutionary, and Apple is by far the most proprietary, heavy-handed, and locked down ecosystem of any of the big players currently. Apple also goes out of its way to not support open standards whenever they can make a proprietary, not-cross-platform one and to build those walls higher.
All my gratitude for Jobs helping kill Flash has long since withered as a developer. But MacBooks sure are nice piece of kit still, lol.
I just bought a Macbook Air M1 for some work stuff, and it's the first time I've used macOS. My god, it feels like moving back to the dark ages after using Windows 10.
That's what happens when you own both the OS and the hardware it runs on. Microsoft is stuck having to keep Windows on everything from a potato to devices with hundreds of cores (re: Azure). Apple also has the luxury not having to deal with backwards compatibility, aside from the extremely rare instance when they switch architectures. I have to applaud Microsoft from finally drawing a line in the sand with Windows 11 device support. Though it sounds like they're backing away from it a bit more every day.
>>That's what happens when you own both the OS and the hardware it runs on.
Yes, the control of the stack thing makes life a bit easier for Apple but it doesn't really explain why Apple silicon has started to best Intel silicon in areas that Intel was thought to be invulnerable. Basically, Apple aims to produce only a small number of processors that are the best processors that Apple can make. Those processors will be used in Apple's product lines as befits the requirements of the specific products and Apple's silicon development strategy. The M1 processor that has already be released is simply faster and more energy efficient that the 28W Tiger Lake parts (UP3 variety) that it is a direct rival to. That is what benchmarks on this site and elsewhere show. But, control of the stack will help Apple to play its own game as it extends its silicon rivalry with Intel beyond laptops and into other product domains that Apple operates in.
None of the MacBook Pros are competitive with the Surfaces when it comes to touchscreens or stylus input though. As long as Apple refuses to make iPadOS into a full OS, the Surface line will always remain competitive
I don't get their reluctance to do it. At this point the new iPad Pro is a Macbook without a built in keyboard. Same CPU/GPU. If Parallels had a version that ran on the M1 iPads, I would have jumped on one instead of the Air.
>> None of the MacBook Pros are competitive with the Surfaces when it comes to touchscreens or stylus input though.
Are you talking about existing models or some or all of the new devices? And, is that your opinion or do you have an authoritative source for the contention? I have no direct experience of the existing models but most reviews/video reviews that I have read/seen rate the iPad Pro better on both of those counts.
they really arent for different users apple has mostly always been a lifestyle company and while yes you can do real work on a MacBook you can also do that for the most part on an iPad they are ultimately the same concept since they have nearly identical hardware, the iPad is just the better "new" people generation device and so they want macbooks for mid age folks and ipads for the really old or youunger crowd
"The only significant change to the Surface Go 3 is that there is now an optional Core i3-10100Y processor which is the first quad-core offered in this tablet."
This! Please confirm with Microsoft and Intel. Microsoft's Surface Go spec sheet does list the i3-10100Y as quad-core in direct contradiction to Intel's.
The Pentium 6500Y is actually a big jump from the 4425Y, it's performance specs are identical to the m3-8100Y and can boost to 3.4GHz which is a major contributor to responsiveness:
I bought an original Surface Book, and what I learned about detachable screens is that you don't have to do it very often to degrade the connectors. Eventually, your touchpad and/or keyboard lose their connection to Windows. On top of that, Windows randomly gets into a mode where the detach button doesn't work and then you have to find the specific vent hole on the side where you can stick a paperclip in at an upward angle to manually release the screen (it's 4 to 6 holes up from the bottom on the right hand side -- that's right; they moved it around over time).
All things considered, it was a profoundly bad design.
In that area, the Studio is a vast improvement. If you need a tablet a lot, get a real tablet. This is for people who only occasionally need a tablet so the extra bulk is not a big concern. Maintaining a stable connection between keyboard and screen is.
The pen garage is a great idea compared to the flaky magnet on the old design. What is NOT a great idea is putting the button on the wide side of the pen, which is what they've done here. I guess you guys didn't notice that.
Does no one at Microsoft actually use their own hardware? A button on the wide side is 100% guaranteed to be accidentally pressed all the time. You haven't had fun yet until you've been working on a sketch and suddenly your pen turns into an eraser because you accidentally pressed the damn button. This was already an irritating problem on the round pens, but it is exponentially worse with this design because there is absolutely no way to comfortably hold the pen while not putting a finger near the button.
Hm if the Laptop Studio was already on the H series, I wonder why there was no option to go to 8 cores. In 4 pounds, you can definitely get 8 cores elsewhere, whether Intel TGL or AMD.
Another bad joke. At this point I don't know why you wouldn't get an Ipad unless you desperately needed to play games on a mediocre laptop. Heck there's efforts to hack the M1 so even that case won't be true much longer.
I remember when Surface was top of the line, great specs and innovative designs and good for the price. Now MS only cares about how much money out can squeeze out of you, in an ironic twist they've become what Apple is for everything but it's Ipad lineup.
I wonder if we will get the 13inch iPad Pro (M1), to have it jailbroken. And then have it flashed with macOS. I would love to see it run some (32bit and 64bit) x86-based programs from OS X. And be able to use it with a tough/hard keyboard with a trackpad.
Otherwise, Apple can just make a 360' hinge MacBook for me, with a touchscreen. So that I can use it as a Tablet, and as a Laptop. The Windows options have been good, but I want great, and I think the AppStore and optimised UI / Apps might achieve this. Fingers crossed, but I won't be holding my breath for it :'(
Interesting... So basically everything else besides the new Surface Pro is a total bust, got it. Well the SP8 was the only device I was interested in anyways, I just don't like that Flat Stylus.
Surface Pro was the worst computer and tablet I ever owned. The fan's would be on constantly even while browsing the web, it wasnt powerful enough for anything else either and it was a horrible tablet because of the same reason and the fact that windows OS is a clusterfuck even a desktop operating system. Its like buying the worst of both world's. And I never ever trust Microsoft with software. Their selling point is office 365 when its worst office productivity suite I know.
Though his other comments are crap, I know what he's talking about with the SP. My wife had a Surface Pro 4 and that thing was hot garbage. Most of it was just bad hardware design choices, including that defective Samsung SSD they shipped with that tanked performance.
I think if you are just a business type guy, these are fine products.. But web developers have all switched to the MacBook Pro for a reason. It's just the best device for Web Development .. period. And I think the Keyboard+Pen accessory that is required is way overpriced - making these devices a poor value for the money.
If you make blanket comments like that you'd better be prepared to be called out on them. It's the Internet equivalent of running into a room, dropping a deuce, then running out before someone can kick your ass.
Other than those who just make traditional websites (which you can do on a potato - probably literally), do you mean the useless people who coded the likes of Discord and Teams in Electron and whatever the hell Spotify is?
Because they need to go back to the books. It's not the hardware they code on that matters (as most computers will do), but what rather what they code in. And web development ain't it for most things.
I haven't used any of those but agree that software does feel a bit sluggish today, despite computers getting faster. Increased use of new high-level languages, GUI frameworks, mobile being the chief target platform, etc.
It really i just better to get a laptop now-a-days if you want a mobile windows platform. You gain so much more than this, and the only thing you lost is..i'm trying to think..oh nothing.
I literally would rather have a chromebook in the $500 range than these. That is how unappealing they are. Or even the samsung s7+ still..that was released awhile back.
You're welcome to your opinion, but the Surface Pro 7 that's sat next to me doesn't agree. I read comics off and on, play really rubbish games, use Videostudio, messing with images and more. One machine that basically does all 'I' need. Add the keyboard and dock and you have a laptop and mild desktop.
It's interesting to see the pricing of the Pro 8 vs the Pro X. Seems they're kind of positioning the Pro X to be the cheaper option. I don't know that I believe the "up to 16 hours" battery life claim for the Pro 8 though, the Pro 7 reportedly only got 4.5hr real-world vs the 11 hours claimed, so I won't be surprised if the Pro X continues to be the better option for longer battery life.
While it is unfortunate that there is no SoC update for the Pro X, but I am glad that going forward the lack of x64 emulation will no longer be a issue.
I use my pro 6 all day. Big PDF drawings, controls software, wire shark and others while sending sACN over WiFi. Also there's the pro 7 plus with a bigger battery.
I am not really going to read this article, ...on principle.
Apple started the i* journey with the iPod. That was fine, it was an appliance, pretty much like a microwave.
There was zero overlap to Personal Computers aka PCs, which are very different because a) the true sovereign of a PC is the owner, b) the (general) purpose is defined by the owner.
The problem is that Apple tried to carry over their (DRM music player) appliance approach to Personal Computing.
Well it wasn't my problem, because I abandoned Apple after Jobs won over Wozniak post Apple ][.
The problem is this viral effect of the iNiverse over Personal Computing.
In my book, Microsoft is a company that sold Basic.
Ok, they also sell a Disk Operating System. The have graduated to selling a GUI, too.
Ah, and yes, they started selling Lotus 1-2-3 and Wordperfect or WordStar lookalikes, too.
But in the non-appliance, Personal Computing space, hardware, OS and applications need to be strictly separate and distinct.
Anyone overstepping these natural boundaries needs to be broken up and regulated.
M$: Please get out of hardware! And clouds! And mixing apps with an OS! And spin off gaming!
Because you are bent on reducing consumer choice, and nobody in his right mind should like or allow that.
unpopular opinion but haveing the surface device a year old is actually a good thing for them as it means most f the bugs in a new platform are out and fixed AND that is probably why they haven't just gone full AMD as it does still have a little teething issue best comparison is getting its wisdom teeth pulled out whereas intel is in the state of just needs new dentures
It is always a bit poor timing for Surface Pro and Book/Laptop Studio now in terms of Intel always being late for their release cycle. Surface Laptop's are often luckier in terms of new HW. Once they get refreshed with new hardware in spring 2022, they will obviously have new 12th gen Intel CPUs and new AMD ones as well. I would have loved for MS to change cadence of the whole Surface line to always have updated CPUs as soon as possible. Both Surface Pro and Laptop Studio will be a much harder buy when there is competition with way better/newer hardware.
And then, ofc it is time for MS to have its own SoC as well or co-design one with Intel/AMD that can be optimized and go head to head with Mx series from Apple.
There is nothing terribly exciting about the floppy hinge on the Surface Laptop Studio. Indeed, it is a step back from the sound detachable design of the Surface Book, in my opinion. (Top-heaviness is a disadvantage of the detachable arrangement but it is a cost that a good number of computer users are willing to pay owing to a) the versatility gained by the detachability of the tablet component especially when b) the balance of weight between base and tablet has some engineering solutions as long as a bit of extra weight overall can be tolerated.) Anyway, for a very long time, there has been better engineered hinges for convertible notebooks than the hinge on this new Surface notebook.
A select group of notebook computers have used a rotational-convertible hinge format that in addition to the conventional simple hinging action seen ubiquitously on notebooks additionally used a special mechanism that would allow the screen/lid to rotate about a central axis perpendicular to the keyboard surface. This hinge arrangement (sometimes described as a swivelling hinge convertible/2-in-1) was used on the HP Compaq Netvertible, the HP EliteBook Revolve series, the Panasonic Toughbook CF series, the Toshiba Portege M7xx series and the Fujitsu LifeBook T series of notebooks amongst others. If Microsoft wanted to add some engineering refinement to that kind of hinge they would have my interest but what they have done here appears misbegotten. Despite 'Studio' being in the name of this notebook computer the floppy hinge on this device has nothing in common with the Surface Studio.
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gonsalvg - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
SudioKamen Rider Blade - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Hallelujah, MS finally copied the HP Spectre Folio and old Sony VAIO on the display hinge.That was one of the best hinges ever designed for a foldable screen IMO, and now MS is finally decided to copy it.
Took them long enough.
Sadly their LapTop still looks chunky compared to the elegance of the leather clad HP Spectre Folio.
Byte - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
I invented those hinges in high school. Glad to see them finally.Kamen Rider Blade - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
What year did you graduate HS?Sony & HP have both used those same hinges before MS ever used them.
eh_ch_the_first - Monday, September 27, 2021 - link
Acer did it in the R7 back in 2013.https://www.anandtech.com/show/7221/acer-r7-review...
Dell had the Inspiron Duo two to three years prior that used a wild spinning screen, contained in a ring frame, that was functionally similar but less useful at partial open/close, because the top of the ring obstructed the screen.
https://www.wired.com/2011/02/dell-inspiron-duo/
The best use case I've imagined is to obscure the keyboard so that you can practice touch typing, or to squeeze it onto the food tray of a airplane/bus seat, where there isn't space for a clamshell screen to open up.
This one looks about as impressive (meh), but the trackpad gives it some sexiness...
eh_ch_the_first - Monday, September 27, 2021 - link
lol replied to the wrong post. Rookie!Ivan Argentinski - Thursday, September 30, 2021 - link
R7 was/still is the best design. I am sorry there were no new versions.I am even writing this on my beloved R7, with everything possible upgraded or refreshed. It still works, but I am worried what I'll buy after it is gone.
And yes, Surface Laptop Studio reminds me of my R7. However, they were not brave enough to position the keyboard down and the touchpad up, which is a great design.
But still, I might buy it, just because it reminds me of the R7.
eh_ch_the_first - Saturday, October 2, 2021 - link
I just clicked through the article and noted the unconventional keyboard/touchpad arrangement. I was like eww, but you seem to like it.Could you explain more why you like it with keyboard forward, please?
Retycint - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Overclocked quad cores in the Surface Studios… When my 1.35kg ROG Flow X13 has an 8 core and the same RTX3050Ti in the same form factor (and the ROG is even thinner). I guess in Microsoft’s world 4 cores are all you need?The_Assimilator - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
In Microsoft's world, 4 cores that don't throttle are better than 8 cores that do.shabby - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Wat?tipoo - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
It's almost never worked like that but we'll see. 8 cores utilized fully in the same power budget will typically outperform 4 because of how the power efficiency curves work.StevoLincolnite - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
I mean, where is the Ryzen option?Retycint - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
This doesn’t really make sense. It’s not as if an 8 core processor has to run all 8 cores at the same time; if a workload only uses 4 cores then the other 4 cores will be idling and consuming almost no power. If a workload requires more than 4 cores then the Surface studio will get bottlenecked and slow down while the 8 core will run finedumpsmaster - Monday, October 11, 2021 - link
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flensr - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Removable SSD on the pro 8... The advertising and websites are pretty unclear. It looks kind of like only 128 and 256GB SSDs would be removable, 512 and 1TB would not? What's the actual configuration with the larger SSDs and are they still removable?Zizy - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Huh, why wouldn't 512GB and 1TB be removable? I imagine MS is using Toshiba 2230 SSDs that come in 128-1TB configuration. It is just that 1TB isn't really upgradeable because there is no 2TB 2230 drive yet.Teckk - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Surprising timing that they didn't wait for Alder Lake and also no Ryzen option.Also, is the Surface Book not being refreshed and Surface Studio is the replacement?
tipoo - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Surfaces seem perpetually poorly timed. No 8 core option in a 4 pound workstation in late 2021 is a miss.Zizy - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
I wonder why MS decided to use 35W Tiger lake stuff. Those seem the worst laptop chips ever - overclocked 15W ones without any meaningful benefits. Grab 45W ones and configure them to 35W and you are getting a much better part in every respect.Prestissimo - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Probably paid handsomely by Intel for the sake of "relationship". Judging by this disappointing event, they're gonna need that money in the coming months.Brett Howse - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Except the GPU in the 45W is not as strong as the H35/U series.Zizy - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Yeah but they are putting 3050Ti in the device.tipoo - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I can only guess they have a deal with Intel to dump soon to be replaced chips, because they perpetually seem to release things past the chips prime.Zizy - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Alder seems to be half a year away for laptops and devices are likely even more out. MS can refresh then, no sense to wait. Ryzen doesn't offer TB4 natively, though I would still rather have Ryzen and ordinary USB-C 3.x.True, SB is not being refreshed, but I hope Laptop Studio is addition to the (boring) Laptop lineup, not replacement for Book. (Surface Studio - without Laptop - is a completely different device that is also not getting refreshed)
Teckk - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Oh I thought Alder Lake was holiday launch my bad.Yeah Surface Studio hasn’t been upgraded in a while.
AMD has enough time to integrate TB4 though. Looking at MS history, they might use the current Ryzen series late next year.
The_Assimilator - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Thunderbolt offers nothing over USB-C for 99% of consumers and AMD isn't going to waste precious die space integrating a technology that almost nobody wants or needs, never mind that few can afford.Linustechtips12 - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
what it does do for certain people is when you have things like an egpu or say some storage device that is thunderbolt, not USB, it just makes it a WHOLE lot easier for the consumer rather than finding out after the 200$ dock they ordered that was in tons of shipment delays and it doesn't work because its a thunderbolt dock not USB, also thunderbolt is still the faster connection and more versatile connection as well. It's more about not being stranded, like having a barrel plug power after but also having USB-C so you're not totally limited with surface connect.lazybum131 - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
But Surfaces are also aimed at enterprise. It would probably be attractive to companies that have invested in Thunderbolt docks that work with Lenovo/HP/Dell/etc computers and not need to fork extra for a proprietary Surface connect dock that does exactly the same thing.lmcd - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
You're kidding yourself if you really think consumers aren't interested in docks at home in today's WFH environmentm1013828 - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Id love to see a Ryzen surface pro.Hell, Call it the Surface pro Type R! make it a little fatter with more heatsink to allow 25w power budget as a point of difference to allow the ryzen and its GPU to fly.
brantron - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
The current Surface Pro 7+ already runs in 28 watt mode, yet the fanless i5 doesn't even warm up. I have mine set to idle at the 2.4 GHz base clock because it's overzealous about trying to shave off a fraction of 1 watt while it's barely above room temperature....which raises further questions about the obese Laptop Studio stuck with the same CPU.
DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Microsoft is always a hardware cycle behind everyone else.ChrisGX - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
High end Tiger Lake parts are fast and relatively energy efficient. Alder Lake is another Intel part not a revelation. At 35W TDP or below Tiger Lake is a sensibly specced CPU for the Surface Laptop Studio. The upgrade over what other run-of-the-mill Surface devices offer is the GPU and making allowance for a powerful GPU makes very good sense on this new product (just as it did on the Surface Book and the Surface Studio).The Surface Book is a great product with many of the virtues of the Surface Laptop Studio in a detachable configuration that arguably would satisfy the needs of many users better than this new tablety laptop. I don't know the answer to your question but it would be a miserable thing to cut short the life of the Surface Book for the sake of the Surface Laptop Studio.
MrCommunistGen - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Microsoft probably can't make Qualcomm to build a better SoC (or at least doesn't want to spend the money to force the issue), but the SQ1/SQ2 are getting a bit long in the tooth.I'd really love to see what the latest and greatest generation ARM cores bring to the table for Windows on ARM performance.
Maybe Microsoft can go the Google route and build their own ARM SoC or commission someone other than Qualcomm to build something that's actually modern at time of release.
DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
An extremely low number of people want a Windows device that has to run Windows apps through emulation. They've tried to push them over and over again.ChrisGX - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
All critical applications will be built for ARM in time and higher performance ARM chips are coming - the NUVIA/Qualcomm SoC should be pretty good. No one is being forced to run Windows apps in emulation. Early Windows on ARM adopters (and everything is still at an early stage) will primarily be interested in the low power draw and energy efficiency of ARM parts which will be great for tablets and fanless laptops. If anyone needs to run x86 application binaries on ARM and they don't like the performance they won't be buying ARM but that won't stop the progress of WoA. None of this will be happening overnight. (For the record, x86 applications already run well on ARM, namely x86 Mac applications on the Apple M1 SoC, but that is no help to Windows users, unfortunately.)MakaanPL - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
According to Microsoft website, Surface Pro 8 supports Dolby Vision as well, it's not only for Laptop Studio. This probably means the display will eventually go beyond sRGB.lemurbutton - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
None of these are competitive with the M1 Macbooks and the upcoming M2X (A15 based) Macbook Pros slated for release later this year.SaolDan - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Yeah 🍎 is killing it on the SOC side of things. I myself don't like the Apple ecosystem but i give credit where credit is due.Kangal - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Apple is killing it with their:- SoC's (CPU, GPU, and everything else)
- Hardware (Just feels great, no huge QC issues, like for instance, GPD devices)
- Software (their SDK is tight, Swift is revolutionary, Metal is great)
What I don't know about is how Apple's is going from a UI viewpoint.
The Apple Watch UI isn't good in my humble opinion. The iPhone X UI felt janky/less intuitive to me, not sure if they've kept it the same, gotten worse, or made improvements since. Their iPadOS seems good for the iPad Mini as a mostly consuming device rather productivity. Not sure if iPadOS is actually good or powerful when it's on a large iPad Pro. I don't know how the latest iOS (sorry macOS X) experience is on the 2020 M1 MacBook Pro laptops. I don't know about the AppleTV's UI it could be good or bad. Their Apple CarPlay however is surprisingly pleasant to use.
...is there anyone who has an accurate opinion (are they killing it) on their UI status?
gijames1225 - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I'd temper the praise of their software / development ecosystem (but fully agree that hardware and chips are top notch). Swift is hardly revolutionary, and Apple is by far the most proprietary, heavy-handed, and locked down ecosystem of any of the big players currently. Apple also goes out of its way to not support open standards whenever they can make a proprietary, not-cross-platform one and to build those walls higher.All my gratitude for Jobs helping kill Flash has long since withered as a developer. But MacBooks sure are nice piece of kit still, lol.
DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I just bought a Macbook Air M1 for some work stuff, and it's the first time I've used macOS. My god, it feels like moving back to the dark ages after using Windows 10.DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
That's what happens when you own both the OS and the hardware it runs on.Microsoft is stuck having to keep Windows on everything from a potato to devices with hundreds of cores (re: Azure). Apple also has the luxury not having to deal with backwards compatibility, aside from the extremely rare instance when they switch architectures.
I have to applaud Microsoft from finally drawing a line in the sand with Windows 11 device support. Though it sounds like they're backing away from it a bit more every day.
ChrisGX - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
>>That's what happens when you own both the OS and the hardware it runs on.Yes, the control of the stack thing makes life a bit easier for Apple but it doesn't really explain why Apple silicon has started to best Intel silicon in areas that Intel was thought to be invulnerable. Basically, Apple aims to produce only a small number of processors that are the best processors that Apple can make. Those processors will be used in Apple's product lines as befits the requirements of the specific products and Apple's silicon development strategy. The M1 processor that has already be released is simply faster and more energy efficient that the 28W Tiger Lake parts (UP3 variety) that it is a direct rival to. That is what benchmarks on this site and elsewhere show. But, control of the stack will help Apple to play its own game as it extends its silicon rivalry with Intel beyond laptops and into other product domains that Apple operates in.
damianrobertjones - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Eh? Touch screens, stylus... that's all I've got.Retycint - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
None of the MacBook Pros are competitive with the Surfaces when it comes to touchscreens or stylus input though. As long as Apple refuses to make iPadOS into a full OS, the Surface line will always remain competitiveDigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I don't get their reluctance to do it. At this point the new iPad Pro is a Macbook without a built in keyboard. Same CPU/GPU. If Parallels had a version that ran on the M1 iPads, I would have jumped on one instead of the Air.ChrisGX - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
>> None of the MacBook Pros are competitive with the Surfaces when it comes to touchscreens or stylus input though.Are you talking about existing models or some or all of the new devices? And, is that your opinion or do you have an authoritative source for the contention? I have no direct experience of the existing models but most reviews/video reviews that I have read/seen rate the iPad Pro better on both of those counts.
imaheadcase - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
So you are trying to compare two different products against each other for different type of users? Get out.Linustechtips12 - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
they really arent for different users apple has mostly always been a lifestyle company and while yes you can do real work on a MacBook you can also do that for the most part on an iPad they are ultimately the same concept since they have nearly identical hardware, the iPad is just the better "new" people generation device and so they want macbooks for mid age folks and ipads for the really old or youunger crowduser678 - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
"The only significant change to the Surface Go 3 is that there is now an optional Core i3-10100Y processor which is the first quad-core offered in this tablet."The i3-10100Y has 2 cores (4 threads):
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/produc...
lazybum131 - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
This! Please confirm with Microsoft and Intel. Microsoft's Surface Go spec sheet does list the i3-10100Y as quad-core in direct contradiction to Intel's.The Pentium 6500Y is actually a big jump from the 4425Y, it's performance specs are identical to the m3-8100Y and can boost to 3.4GHz which is a major contributor to responsiveness:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compar...
lazybum131 - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
The 4425Y was locked to 1.7GHz in comparison. The Go 1's 4415Y at 1.6GHz.Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Thanks. That's been corrected. The i3-10100Y is indeed a dual core SoC.pjcamp - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
I bought an original Surface Book, and what I learned about detachable screens is that you don't have to do it very often to degrade the connectors. Eventually, your touchpad and/or keyboard lose their connection to Windows. On top of that, Windows randomly gets into a mode where the detach button doesn't work and then you have to find the specific vent hole on the side where you can stick a paperclip in at an upward angle to manually release the screen (it's 4 to 6 holes up from the bottom on the right hand side -- that's right; they moved it around over time).All things considered, it was a profoundly bad design.
In that area, the Studio is a vast improvement. If you need a tablet a lot, get a real tablet. This is for people who only occasionally need a tablet so the extra bulk is not a big concern. Maintaining a stable connection between keyboard and screen is.
The pen garage is a great idea compared to the flaky magnet on the old design. What is NOT a great idea is putting the button on the wide side of the pen, which is what they've done here. I guess you guys didn't notice that.
Does no one at Microsoft actually use their own hardware? A button on the wide side is 100% guaranteed to be accidentally pressed all the time. You haven't had fun yet until you've been working on a sketch and suddenly your pen turns into an eraser because you accidentally pressed the damn button. This was already an irritating problem on the round pens, but it is exponentially worse with this design because there is absolutely no way to comfortably hold the pen while not putting a finger near the button.
damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
" A button on the wide side is 100% guaranteed to be accidentally pressed all the time."The standard stylus is pretty good and I've never, EVER, and I mean EVER, accidentally pressed the button (after the first few times). :)
Prestissimo - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
No, most MS employees themselves use MacBooks, this has been confirmed multiple times.DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Even Microsoft can't get away from the hipsters.p1esk - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
What are those monitors?tipoo - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Hm if the Laptop Studio was already on the H series, I wonder why there was no option to go to 8 cores. In 4 pounds, you can definitely get 8 cores elsewhere, whether Intel TGL or AMD.jeremyshaw - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Intel diluted the H series with 11th gen. Now hotted up U parts can have the H name.Technically was called H35 series, but you won't see that on Intel's own product page:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/s...
tipoo - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Ah I get it now. So these are the 15W chips they juiced up to 35W for tepid gains, and so there isn't 8 cores in the line.Frenetic Pony - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Another bad joke. At this point I don't know why you wouldn't get an Ipad unless you desperately needed to play games on a mediocre laptop. Heck there's efforts to hack the M1 so even that case won't be true much longer.I remember when Surface was top of the line, great specs and innovative designs and good for the price. Now MS only cares about how much money out can squeeze out of you, in an ironic twist they've become what Apple is for everything but it's Ipad lineup.
Kangal - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I wonder if we will get the 13inch iPad Pro (M1), to have it jailbroken.And then have it flashed with macOS. I would love to see it run some (32bit and 64bit) x86-based programs from OS X. And be able to use it with a tough/hard keyboard with a trackpad.
Otherwise, Apple can just make a 360' hinge MacBook for me, with a touchscreen. So that I can use it as a Tablet, and as a Laptop. The Windows options have been good, but I want great, and I think the AppStore and optimised UI / Apps might achieve this. Fingers crossed, but I won't be holding my breath for it :'(
Prestissimo - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Interesting... So basically everything else besides the new Surface Pro is a total bust, got it.Well the SP8 was the only device I was interested in anyways, I just don't like that Flat Stylus.
vegaskew - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
It's "erred on the side of caution", not "aired on the side of caution"Lavkesh - Wednesday, September 22, 2021 - link
Surface Pro was the worst computer and tablet I ever owned. The fan's would be on constantly even while browsing the web, it wasnt powerful enough for anything else either and it was a horrible tablet because of the same reason and the fact that windows OS is a clusterfuck even a desktop operating system. Its like buying the worst of both world's. And I never ever trust Microsoft with software. Their selling point is office 365 when its worst office productivity suite I know.damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Hmmm. Something tells me that you just don't like MS.DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Though his other comments are crap, I know what he's talking about with the SP. My wife had a Surface Pro 4 and that thing was hot garbage. Most of it was just bad hardware design choices, including that defective Samsung SSD they shipped with that tanked performance.cycomiko - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
No Surface Laptop replacement?Tams80 - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
They aren't that interesting products and some silly claims were made by Panos et al.But damn are the Apple shills out in force here today. Please, go drink your Koolaid elsewhere while Apple look through your files.
TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I think if you are just a business type guy, these are fine products.. But web developers have all switched to the MacBook Pro for a reason. It's just the best device for Web Development .. period. And I think the Keyboard+Pen accessory that is required is way overpriced - making these devices a poor value for the money.The_Assimilator - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
"It's just the best device for Web Development"This is exactly the kind of vapid, pointless, completely evidence-devoid comment that an Apple shill would make.
TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I don't need to prove anything to you.DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
If you make blanket comments like that you'd better be prepared to be called out on them. It's the Internet equivalent of running into a room, dropping a deuce, then running out before someone can kick your ass.SaolDan - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I like this comment very much. I salute you sir!Tams80 - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
> web developersOther than those who just make traditional websites (which you can do on a potato - probably literally), do you mean the useless people who coded the likes of Discord and Teams in Electron and whatever the hell Spotify is?
Because they need to go back to the books. It's not the hardware they code on that matters (as most computers will do), but what rather what they code in. And web development ain't it for most things.
GeoffreyA - Saturday, September 25, 2021 - link
Well, everyone's a developer nowadays. Notice how the word programmer has fallen out of the dictionary.Tams80 - Saturday, September 25, 2021 - link
And notice how the quality of programs has decreased.There is absolutely no excuse for the likes of Discord, Teams, and Spotify to lag on most computers. Yet they do.
GeoffreyA - Sunday, September 26, 2021 - link
I haven't used any of those but agree that software does feel a bit sluggish today, despite computers getting faster. Increased use of new high-level languages, GUI frameworks, mobile being the chief target platform, etc.imaheadcase - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
It really i just better to get a laptop now-a-days if you want a mobile windows platform. You gain so much more than this, and the only thing you lost is..i'm trying to think..oh nothing.I literally would rather have a chromebook in the $500 range than these. That is how unappealing they are. Or even the samsung s7+ still..that was released awhile back.
damianrobertjones - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
You're welcome to your opinion, but the Surface Pro 7 that's sat next to me doesn't agree. I read comics off and on, play really rubbish games, use Videostudio, messing with images and more. One machine that basically does all 'I' need. Add the keyboard and dock and you have a laptop and mild desktop.Imagine that, we're all different.
P.s. Chromebooks really DO suck.
Prestissimo - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Chromebooks make good laptops for browsing indeed, but Chrome OS still has years to go before maturing its Tablet UI.domboy - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
It's interesting to see the pricing of the Pro 8 vs the Pro X. Seems they're kind of positioning the Pro X to be the cheaper option. I don't know that I believe the "up to 16 hours" battery life claim for the Pro 8 though, the Pro 7 reportedly only got 4.5hr real-world vs the 11 hours claimed, so I won't be surprised if the Pro X continues to be the better option for longer battery life.While it is unfortunate that there is no SoC update for the Pro X, but I am glad that going forward the lack of x64 emulation will no longer be a issue.
SaolDan - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I use my pro 6 all day. Big PDF drawings, controls software, wire shark and others while sending sACN over WiFi. Also there's the pro 7 plus with a bigger battery.DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
OMFG, Surface devices finally got Thunderbolt. Guess finally enough people complained about being locked into their shitty propriety docks.DigitalFreak - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
Another example of shitty - AT is still running the same no-edit-button forum software from their launch in 1997.abufrejoval - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
I am not really going to read this article, ...on principle.Apple started the i* journey with the iPod. That was fine, it was an appliance, pretty much like a microwave.
There was zero overlap to Personal Computers aka PCs, which are very different because a) the true sovereign of a PC is the owner, b) the (general) purpose is defined by the owner.
The problem is that Apple tried to carry over their (DRM music player) appliance approach to Personal Computing.
Well it wasn't my problem, because I abandoned Apple after Jobs won over Wozniak post Apple ][.
The problem is this viral effect of the iNiverse over Personal Computing.
In my book, Microsoft is a company that sold Basic.
Ok, they also sell a Disk Operating System. The have graduated to selling a GUI, too.
Ah, and yes, they started selling Lotus 1-2-3 and Wordperfect or WordStar lookalikes, too.
But in the non-appliance, Personal Computing space, hardware, OS and applications need to be strictly separate and distinct.
Anyone overstepping these natural boundaries needs to be broken up and regulated.
M$: Please get out of hardware! And clouds! And mixing apps with an OS! And spin off gaming!
Because you are bent on reducing consumer choice, and nobody in his right mind should like or allow that.
GeoffreyA - Saturday, September 25, 2021 - link
10/10!PVG - Thursday, September 23, 2021 - link
No Cezanne? No deal...r3loaded - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
No Ryzen, no happy.Linustechtips12 - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
unpopular opinion but haveing the surface device a year old is actually a good thing for them as it means most f the bugs in a new platform are out and fixed AND that is probably why they haven't just gone full AMD as it does still have a little teething issue best comparison is getting its wisdom teeth pulled out whereas intel is in the state of just needs new denturesPowervano - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
It is always a bit poor timing for Surface Pro and Book/Laptop Studio now in terms of Intel always being late for their release cycle. Surface Laptop's are often luckier in terms of new HW. Once they get refreshed with new hardware in spring 2022, they will obviously have new 12th gen Intel CPUs and new AMD ones as well. I would have loved for MS to change cadence of the whole Surface line to always have updated CPUs as soon as possible.Both Surface Pro and Laptop Studio will be a much harder buy when there is competition with way better/newer hardware.
Powervano - Friday, September 24, 2021 - link
And then, ofc it is time for MS to have its own SoC as well or co-design one with Intel/AMD that can be optimized and go head to head with Mx series from Apple.ChrisGX - Tuesday, September 28, 2021 - link
There is nothing terribly exciting about the floppy hinge on the Surface Laptop Studio. Indeed, it is a step back from the sound detachable design of the Surface Book, in my opinion. (Top-heaviness is a disadvantage of the detachable arrangement but it is a cost that a good number of computer users are willing to pay owing to a) the versatility gained by the detachability of the tablet component especially when b) the balance of weight between base and tablet has some engineering solutions as long as a bit of extra weight overall can be tolerated.) Anyway, for a very long time, there has been better engineered hinges for convertible notebooks than the hinge on this new Surface notebook.A select group of notebook computers have used a rotational-convertible hinge format that in addition to the conventional simple hinging action seen ubiquitously on notebooks additionally used a special mechanism that would allow the screen/lid to rotate about a central axis perpendicular to the keyboard surface. This hinge arrangement (sometimes described as a swivelling hinge convertible/2-in-1) was used on the HP Compaq Netvertible, the HP EliteBook Revolve series, the Panasonic Toughbook CF series, the Toshiba Portege M7xx series and the Fujitsu LifeBook T series of notebooks amongst others. If Microsoft wanted to add some engineering refinement to that kind of hinge they would have my interest but what they have done here appears misbegotten. Despite 'Studio' being in the name of this notebook computer the floppy hinge on this device has nothing in common with the Surface Studio.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-in-1_PC
Gratislinks - Tuesday, September 28, 2021 - link
If you want to see some furniture see https://furnished.dk/web2dot0 - Tuesday, September 28, 2021 - link
Good luck competing with M1x with this lineup