I really wish reviewers would stop focusing on Cherry as if they are the leaders in quality or feel. There's hundreds of types of switches from a number of brands these days, many of which perform as well, if not significantly better.
If anything, they're kind of frowned upon in the mech keyboard community. I think Cherry is a reliable brand, but they're definitely not making the best switches out there. Not even close. I think most people that worry about the stuff (me included) consider Kailh to be the better switch manufacturer. lol
Linus recently did a blind test. Cherry MX browns hands down won the tactile category. However Cherry was nowhere in any of the other categories. That was a pretty comprehensive test with some power users. I would say if tactile is what you are looking for then Cherry is a great option if you are looking for linear or clicky switches then there are better choices.
No on the Holy Panda. Drop (who's board they used) still hadn't sent out the first batch of their version, Glorious obviously no as well. And the ones out there were a frakenswitch that would have fallen outside their test group.
They did try Zealios (and most of the Zeal lineup) and I believe the t1, but don't quote me on that one.
There are certainly better feeling switches, and even more silent ones. But all others are extremely unreliable. They start making double taps or dont recognize taps anymore very soon compared to Cherry. I guess they are much more susceptible to dust or wear much faster and then their own wear dust causes these issues. But I guess getting a new keyboard is now for some like a new smartphone. Once every year.
Doesn't make much sense to me. If the "clones" are providing equivalent or better products at a lower cost, why throw money to Cherry just because they were first?
I don't mind cherry as much some do and typically will still get off the shelf boards with them in use. But its not like this board used Outemu or TTC. They used one of the top switch manufacturers. They used Kaihl because they wanted to make sure enthusiasts would still purchase it and anyone who didn't recognize Kaihl wouldn't know enough about switches to care. You are the exception that proves the rule thinking so basic on knowledge that you know Cherry but still think for any reason that you should only get that over alternatives.
Depending on what you want, the clones might be as good or even substantially better.
Personally, I think the Cherry MX Browns are hands-down the best switches that exist. But if you're not after a switch in that style, I think non-Cherry switches are probably going to be better - or at least offer more options.
So what performs better? Also, I only know of 5-6 other brands. Where is this, "hundreds" coming from? An exageration?
(I'm talking ordinary switches like cherry makes, not topre. Unless you know of something exotic and awesome, in which case it would be nice if you could also mention it.)
IMO I'd still take Cherry switches over everything else that exists.
But only the browns. Everybody else's brown-equivalents kinda suck, IMO. They are way too linear, too light to give you any feedback or they are conversely heavier than blues.
But of course I *only* like browns and blues and I don't like blues when I'm doing anything that's not typing, so I only want browns. So for me Cherry is still a *long* way ahead.
But for sure if you want a linear switch you shouldn't really consider them and if you want a clicky switch there's a lot of switches fighting for your money.
I still have two original IBM PS/2 keyboard, primary and backup, built in 1990 and about as pricey back then as a used compact car. I fished those out of a recycling container from a bank that had evidently gone for something more quiet.
In the home office that's never been an issue and the pleasure of typing on them is most likely the reason I tend towards verbosity.
Hardly any good for gaming, but you can't have everything.
A keyboard with way more processing power than your PS/2 machine seems very likely a security nightmare. So in a bank, those wold not do.
My policy has always been that if I have to endure the constant talking on the phone of my colleagues on the same floor, then the musical notes my keyboard emits as I go about my business are fair game.
Are the Apple Wireless Keyboards (the ones that run on AA batteries) also 60% keyboards? I’m never quite sure what style of keyboard they are. I do love mine though, have been using them for over 10 years (have avoided all the butterfly keyboard madness). So nice to have a desktop keyboard that exactly matches my Mac laptop keyboard, and easy to throw in a bag and take to work in pre-COVID times. The small size helps me avoid RSI and have more space on my desktop for pen and paper and notes.
At this point I’ve accumulated 4 of them - one for my desktop, a spare one in case my main one breaks, a dedicated one for my Windows box (re-pairing the keyboard’s Bluetooth is a pain, easier to have a dedicated one), and a 10-year old semi-broken one with a broken delete key remapped to the power key.
Keep thinking about trying out a mechanical keyboard like the one in the review but really not sure if I can make the leap. I do have an old IBM Model M keyboard up in my attic. It’s the king of mechanicals but it’s bigger and heavier than my entire desk and probably needs about £100 of dongles to get it to work with my current systems.
with function keys and arrow keys, but not the but not the insert-pgdn cluster Apple's compact layout would be about a 75% if you wanted to classify them that way; but that's not a standard percentage category.
Another super thick keyboard causing ergonomic problems without a huge wrist wrest. Add in that it's 60% instead of the more popular 65% and you've got a clear looser.
I dont understand why they keep making mechanical keyboards with metal plates. And then actually put the switches right onto that plate without any decoupling. They are always loud as hell, so much that you can even hear the pinging of every switch and silent versions of switches do nothing.
Agreed. You really can't allow yourself to bottom out with this. At least when you bottom out with a basic rubber dome you're slightly cushioned by the dome material.
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FreckledTrout - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
Really well done review. The three space bars is pretty wacky not sure I would get used tot hat or not.Linustechtips12#6900xt - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
ngl if those spacebars can be like remapped "macros" then I would buy this keyboard if they made it in an 80% layoutDanNeely - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
they include a full sized spacebar, so if you try it and decide you don't like it you can switch back to normal.FreckledTrout - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
Cool.vincentlaw - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
I really wish reviewers would stop focusing on Cherry as if they are the leaders in quality or feel. There's hundreds of types of switches from a number of brands these days, many of which perform as well, if not significantly better.mr_fistur - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
If anything, they're kind of frowned upon in the mech keyboard community. I think Cherry is a reliable brand, but they're definitely not making the best switches out there. Not even close. I think most people that worry about the stuff (me included) consider Kailh to be the better switch manufacturer. lolFreckledTrout - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
Linus recently did a blind test. Cherry MX browns hands down won the tactile category. However Cherry was nowhere in any of the other categories. That was a pretty comprehensive test with some power users. I would say if tactile is what you are looking for then Cherry is a great option if you are looking for linear or clicky switches then there are better choices.Findecanor - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
But ... did LTT test include Holy Panda, T1 or Zealio switches in the tactile-switch comparison?Topweasel - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
No on the Holy Panda. Drop (who's board they used) still hadn't sent out the first batch of their version, Glorious obviously no as well. And the ones out there were a frakenswitch that would have fallen outside their test group.They did try Zealios (and most of the Zeal lineup) and I believe the t1, but don't quote me on that one.
Beaver M. - Thursday, April 29, 2021 - link
There are certainly better feeling switches, and even more silent ones. But all others are extremely unreliable. They start making double taps or dont recognize taps anymore very soon compared to Cherry. I guess they are much more susceptible to dust or wear much faster and then their own wear dust causes these issues.But I guess getting a new keyboard is now for some like a new smartphone. Once every year.
yetanotherhuman - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
I want Cherry. No point rewarding clones when Cherry is the original.Spunjji - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
Doesn't make much sense to me. If the "clones" are providing equivalent or better products at a lower cost, why throw money to Cherry just because they were first?Topweasel - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
I don't mind cherry as much some do and typically will still get off the shelf boards with them in use. But its not like this board used Outemu or TTC. They used one of the top switch manufacturers. They used Kaihl because they wanted to make sure enthusiasts would still purchase it and anyone who didn't recognize Kaihl wouldn't know enough about switches to care. You are the exception that proves the rule thinking so basic on knowledge that you know Cherry but still think for any reason that you should only get that over alternatives.althaz - Tuesday, April 27, 2021 - link
Depending on what you want, the clones might be as good or even substantially better.Personally, I think the Cherry MX Browns are hands-down the best switches that exist. But if you're not after a switch in that style, I think non-Cherry switches are probably going to be better - or at least offer more options.
althaz - Tuesday, April 27, 2021 - link
Especially the linear switches, which Cherry honestly just isn't good at.ballsystemlord - Saturday, April 24, 2021 - link
So what performs better?Also, I only know of 5-6 other brands. Where is this, "hundreds" coming from? An exageration?
(I'm talking ordinary switches like cherry makes, not topre. Unless you know of something exotic and awesome, in which case it would be nice if you could also mention it.)
althaz - Tuesday, April 27, 2021 - link
IMO I'd still take Cherry switches over everything else that exists.But only the browns. Everybody else's brown-equivalents kinda suck, IMO. They are way too linear, too light to give you any feedback or they are conversely heavier than blues.
But of course I *only* like browns and blues and I don't like blues when I'm doing anything that's not typing, so I only want browns. So for me Cherry is still a *long* way ahead.
But for sure if you want a linear switch you shouldn't really consider them and if you want a clicky switch there's a lot of switches fighting for your money.
abufrejoval - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
I still have two original IBM PS/2 keyboard, primary and backup, built in 1990 and about as pricey back then as a used compact car. I fished those out of a recycling container from a bank that had evidently gone for something more quiet.In the home office that's never been an issue and the pleasure of typing on them is most likely the reason I tend towards verbosity.
Hardly any good for gaming, but you can't have everything.
A keyboard with way more processing power than your PS/2 machine seems very likely a security nightmare. So in a bank, those wold not do.
nucc1 - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
My policy has always been that if I have to endure the constant talking on the phone of my colleagues on the same floor, then the musical notes my keyboard emits as I go about my business are fair game.Hxx - Thursday, April 22, 2021 - link
yeah get yourself a Drop Carina if you want a fully featured 60%Tomatotech - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
Are the Apple Wireless Keyboards (the ones that run on AA batteries) also 60% keyboards? I’m never quite sure what style of keyboard they are. I do love mine though, have been using them for over 10 years (have avoided all the butterfly keyboard madness). So nice to have a desktop keyboard that exactly matches my Mac laptop keyboard, and easy to throw in a bag and take to work in pre-COVID times. The small size helps me avoid RSI and have more space on my desktop for pen and paper and notes.At this point I’ve accumulated 4 of them - one for my desktop, a spare one in case my main one breaks, a dedicated one for my Windows box (re-pairing the keyboard’s Bluetooth is a pain, easier to have a dedicated one), and a 10-year old semi-broken one with a broken delete key remapped to the power key.
Keep thinking about trying out a mechanical keyboard like the one in the review but really not sure if I can make the leap. I do have an old IBM Model M keyboard up in my attic. It’s the king of mechanicals but it’s bigger and heavier than my entire desk and probably needs about £100 of dongles to get it to work with my current systems.
YesYesNo - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
No macs are a bit bigger, they have function keys usually.The only thing a mac keyboard has in common with a mechanical keyboard is the price really.
DanNeely - Friday, April 23, 2021 - link
with function keys and arrow keys, but not the but not the insert-pgdn cluster Apple's compact layout would be about a 75% if you wanted to classify them that way; but that's not a standard percentage category.sharathc - Sunday, April 25, 2021 - link
Wow. Earlier generation processors powered the entire computer. Now it powers the entire keyboard. 🙂Dug - Monday, April 26, 2021 - link
Another super thick keyboard causing ergonomic problems without a huge wrist wrest.Add in that it's 60% instead of the more popular 65% and you've got a clear looser.
mikegrok - Tuesday, April 27, 2021 - link
typo:store up to nice profiles
to
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Ryan Smith - Wednesday, April 28, 2021 - link
Thanks!Beaver M. - Thursday, April 29, 2021 - link
I dont understand why they keep making mechanical keyboards with metal plates. And then actually put the switches right onto that plate without any decoupling.They are always loud as hell, so much that you can even hear the pinging of every switch and silent versions of switches do nothing.
IKeelU - Thursday, May 6, 2021 - link
Agreed. You really can't allow yourself to bottom out with this. At least when you bottom out with a basic rubber dome you're slightly cushioned by the dome material.martin boyle - Saturday, May 8, 2021 - link
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