ZBook line has been an intel design from the beginning, upgrading to newer intel is easy even though they redesigned the laptop this year, the original design was still intel, including motherboard, cooling, etc.. Upgrading to newer intel CPU is easy for them. But moving to Ryzen will take more time, and some design and engineering ideas might be patented also to Intel and can't be used in AMD. Some designs also could be NVIDIA's and they have yet to design a Ryzen 4000 version of their platform.
There's nothing intrinsically "Intel" to the Z line and nothing stopping them from using AMD or launching an AMD equivalent under a different series. And HP already has Ryzen 3000 based offerings but all lower end devices. Introducing a high end AMD system right now would shoot any Xeon offering in both feet. HP is just being a good pal with Intel, it's not as if it's the first time they do it.
If they are targeting creative professionals, and video producers like myself, having the Thunderbolt 3 is crucial to a lot of external devices that I utilize. I would love to test out some Ryzen laptops but the need for TB3 drives my decisions more than anything else at this point.
There is no technical reason for a Ryzen notebook not being able to have Thunderbolt ports. There are Ryzen motherboards that have Thunderbolt built in (Asrock X570 Create and Phantom Gaming ITX boards). So Intel in not needed for a Notebook featuring Thunderbolt 3. This is all in how they design the motherboard.
Since when is saving a couple of bucks a "technical" reason, Billy? Why not just slap on a Celeron instead of that Xeon then? Seems exactly like the kind of laptop they'd skimp on. I mean it's not like the series usually starts at ~$3000 and tops out at about $10000 (!!), or $6500 with end of sales rebates. Tell me more about the "technical" reasons of saving a buck on a $10000 laptop...
Which, ironically enough, is often not implemented by the notebook manufacturers. This and similar "pro" machines and MacBooks being the exception. As for the other Ice Lake machines, how much extra cost does adding a TB port really add? Any estimates?
@eastcoast_pete: The recommended price for a series 7 dual TB3 host controller from Intel is a whole $9. This is just the controller.
Now the whole thing adds quite a bit extra via increased PCB complexity varying with what features are implemented exactly, additional ICs, cost of the connectors themselves, etc. Maybe not worth it for a $600-$1000 laptop, where margins are a lot thinner and buyers likely don't care about TB.
On a $3000-$10000 laptop this amounts to pretty much nil, and the PCB complexity is already there. It's just the extra $9 TB controller. Billy's excuse of "technical reason is to save money" is as ignorant and uninformed as it is inaccurate. HP may be saving money but they're doing it via the same old tricks of having a deal with Intel.
There's nothing stopping them from implementing TB3 on an AMD notebook, they just need to wire up the controllers and pay Intel for certification like with any device.
@fatcatproductions, as I said there is NO technical reason to not have a high end AMD product in their lineup. TB is available on both platforms. Moreover AMD offers better CPU performance and efficiency, and things like PCIe 4.0. All of which creative professionals, and video producers like yourself should greatly appreciate.
HP is doing what they've done before. Enjoying the discounts Intel is surely providing under one shape or another for exclusivity.
Dell and HP both need to prepare to live in a world where Intel won't be making a big comeback. They are behind in process tech at this point - for the first time in their history - and while they will eventually catch up with AMD/TSMC 7nm, AMD will have moved on by then.
Intel seemed to have lost its focus some time ago, and this was merely the delayed result. It seems like the wrong horse to stay hitched to at this point.
I had to make an account to share some information someone at the workstation department let slip accidentally. They are testing with Ryzen/treadripper for their Z lineup. But Z requires extensive software validation. Because they guaranty that professional software like Autodesk/adobe suite all work. I know the AMD processors have failed the last validation attempt. So the "technical" reason for the lack AMD product in the Z line is that AMD failed ISV certification. HP is still working on this.
@close The rebate program you are talking about is unlikely to be in place. Since if intel is discovered using this tactic again. It is highly likely the EU will break them up. Since that was a provisory part of the verdict for the last anti-trust case against Intel.
@valueaddedreseller, the rebate I was mentioning is the kind of price cut most manufacturers offer at the end of the cycle to offload inventory. So now HP offers the current gen. Z series at ~$6500 instead of the usual ~$10000.
But regarding "the other" type of rebate, I'm sure there are many ways to achieve something to the same effect. HP only has a handful of AMD based products in their lineup and nothing high end / premium (either half-assed configurations that can't be customized, or never actually available anywhere). The one relatively decent model they have (Pavilion 15z) is probably exactly the kind of laptop nobody would buy from HP.
And BTW @valueaddedreseller, the "accidentally slipped info"... you're saying that AMD *CPUs* failed ISV certification? The CPU? Not the GPU and drivers? The same CPUs that went into other ISV certified workstations (the GPU/drivers I mean) failed when in HP's hands? Was your "source" trying to say that HP has some of the most incompetent engineers on the market?
Mind showing me the link to Intel's "CPU ISV certifications" that cover the i5-8400H + Intel 630 iGPU in HP's current gen Z series (say the 2YN60AV)?
That's some really lame shilling you got there. The CPUs are just fine my friend. There was no "failed previous attempt". Plenty of workstations use AMD CPUs, with Radeons and Quadros, and ISV certified drivers. HP is doing what they have always done - received "motivation" from Intel in order to give them another generation or two of sales of shitty CPUs like the i5-8400. Must be because of that "certification" the 8400 has...
BTW, a list of all those ISV certified HP, Dell, or Lenovo workstations, sorted by CPU:
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We have an x360 g5 with dreamcolor. It is 8+2 bit but IIRC it lacks support for 10 bit in Photoshop. Intel has not supported OpenGL 10 bit stack in their drivers, just in HDR or DX 12 mode. Hope this means Intel is officially supporting 10 bit in hardware and software. About time.
The technology may have changed in the past decade, but it isn't the first time they've had a 10-bit "Dreamcolor" display. The EliteBook 8740w (2010) had one as an option as well. I have one of those laptops, albeit not with the Dreamcolor display, which would have added considerably to the cost.
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GreenMeters - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
If they're targeting the top, where's the Ryzen 4000 option?Xajel - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
ZBook line has been an intel design from the beginning, upgrading to newer intel is easy even though they redesigned the laptop this year, the original design was still intel, including motherboard, cooling, etc.. Upgrading to newer intel CPU is easy for them. But moving to Ryzen will take more time, and some design and engineering ideas might be patented also to Intel and can't be used in AMD. Some designs also could be NVIDIA's and they have yet to design a Ryzen 4000 version of their platform.Operandi - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
So it should be "targeted the top" then.close - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
There's nothing intrinsically "Intel" to the Z line and nothing stopping them from using AMD or launching an AMD equivalent under a different series. And HP already has Ryzen 3000 based offerings but all lower end devices. Introducing a high end AMD system right now would shoot any Xeon offering in both feet. HP is just being a good pal with Intel, it's not as if it's the first time they do it.fatcatproductions - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
If they are targeting creative professionals, and video producers like myself, having the Thunderbolt 3 is crucial to a lot of external devices that I utilize. I would love to test out some Ryzen laptops but the need for TB3 drives my decisions more than anything else at this point.caqde - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
There is no technical reason for a Ryzen notebook not being able to have Thunderbolt ports. There are Ryzen motherboards that have Thunderbolt built in (Asrock X570 Create and Phantom Gaming ITX boards). So Intel in not needed for a Notebook featuring Thunderbolt 3. This is all in how they design the motherboard.BillyONeal - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
The technical reason is that Ice Lake comes with a TB controller for free.close - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Since when is saving a couple of bucks a "technical" reason, Billy? Why not just slap on a Celeron instead of that Xeon then? Seems exactly like the kind of laptop they'd skimp on. I mean it's not like the series usually starts at ~$3000 and tops out at about $10000 (!!), or $6500 with end of sales rebates. Tell me more about the "technical" reasons of saving a buck on a $10000 laptop...eastcoast_pete - Sunday, April 19, 2020 - link
Which, ironically enough, is often not implemented by the notebook manufacturers. This and similar "pro" machines and MacBooks being the exception. As for the other Ice Lake machines, how much extra cost does adding a TB port really add? Any estimates?close - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
@eastcoast_pete: The recommended price for a series 7 dual TB3 host controller from Intel is a whole $9. This is just the controller.Now the whole thing adds quite a bit extra via increased PCB complexity varying with what features are implemented exactly, additional ICs, cost of the connectors themselves, etc. Maybe not worth it for a $600-$1000 laptop, where margins are a lot thinner and buyers likely don't care about TB.
On a $3000-$10000 laptop this amounts to pretty much nil, and the PCB complexity is already there. It's just the extra $9 TB controller. Billy's excuse of "technical reason is to save money" is as ignorant and uninformed as it is inaccurate. HP may be saving money but they're doing it via the same old tricks of having a deal with Intel.
Valantar - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
There's nothing stopping them from implementing TB3 on an AMD notebook, they just need to wire up the controllers and pay Intel for certification like with any device.close - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
@fatcatproductions, as I said there is NO technical reason to not have a high end AMD product in their lineup. TB is available on both platforms. Moreover AMD offers better CPU performance and efficiency, and things like PCIe 4.0. All of which creative professionals, and video producers like yourself should greatly appreciate.HP is doing what they've done before. Enjoying the discounts Intel is surely providing under one shape or another for exclusivity.
twtech - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
Dell and HP both need to prepare to live in a world where Intel won't be making a big comeback. They are behind in process tech at this point - for the first time in their history - and while they will eventually catch up with AMD/TSMC 7nm, AMD will have moved on by then.Intel seemed to have lost its focus some time ago, and this was merely the delayed result. It seems like the wrong horse to stay hitched to at this point.
valueaddedreseller - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
I had to make an account to share some information someone at the workstation department let slip accidentally. They are testing with Ryzen/treadripper for their Z lineup. But Z requires extensive software validation. Because they guaranty that professional software like Autodesk/adobe suite all work. I know the AMD processors have failed the last validation attempt. So the "technical" reason for the lack AMD product in the Z line is that AMD failed ISV certification. HP is still working on this.@close The rebate program you are talking about is unlikely to be in place. Since if intel is discovered using this tactic again. It is highly likely the EU will break them up. Since that was a provisory part of the verdict for the last anti-trust case against Intel.
close - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
@valueaddedreseller, the rebate I was mentioning is the kind of price cut most manufacturers offer at the end of the cycle to offload inventory. So now HP offers the current gen. Z series at ~$6500 instead of the usual ~$10000.But regarding "the other" type of rebate, I'm sure there are many ways to achieve something to the same effect. HP only has a handful of AMD based products in their lineup and nothing high end / premium (either half-assed configurations that can't be customized, or never actually available anywhere). The one relatively decent model they have (Pavilion 15z) is probably exactly the kind of laptop nobody would buy from HP.
close - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
And BTW @valueaddedreseller, the "accidentally slipped info"... you're saying that AMD *CPUs* failed ISV certification? The CPU? Not the GPU and drivers? The same CPUs that went into other ISV certified workstations (the GPU/drivers I mean) failed when in HP's hands? Was your "source" trying to say that HP has some of the most incompetent engineers on the market?Mind showing me the link to Intel's "CPU ISV certifications" that cover the i5-8400H + Intel 630 iGPU in HP's current gen Z series (say the 2YN60AV)?
That's some really lame shilling you got there. The CPUs are just fine my friend. There was no "failed previous attempt". Plenty of workstations use AMD CPUs, with Radeons and Quadros, and ISV certified drivers. HP is doing what they have always done - received "motivation" from Intel in order to give them another generation or two of sales of shitty CPUs like the i5-8400. Must be because of that "certification" the 8400 has...
BTW, a list of all those ISV certified HP, Dell, or Lenovo workstations, sorted by CPU:
https://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/isv-certificat...
https://www.thinkworkstations.com/isv-certificatio...
http://precisionworkstations.com/software-certific...
Tams80 - Tuesday, April 21, 2020 - link
What kind of nonsense is this?! O.obarbarajarp - Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - link
Make 6150 bucks every month… Start doing online computer-based work through our website. I have been working from home for 4 years now and I love it. I don’t have a boss standing over my shoulder and I make my own hours. The tips below are very informative and anyone currently working from home or planning to in the future could use this website…. www.iCash68.Ⅽoms.yu - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
IIRC they had Dreamcolor in notebooks from quite a while back...Brett Howse - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
They specifically called it out in the briefing that it was the first time in a notebookdmytty - Saturday, April 18, 2020 - link
We have an x360 g5 with dreamcolor. It is 8+2 bit but IIRC it lacks support for 10 bit in Photoshop. Intel has not supported OpenGL 10 bit stack in their drivers, just in HDR or DX 12 mode. Hope this means Intel is officially supporting 10 bit in hardware and software. About time.IBM760XL - Sunday, April 19, 2020 - link
The technology may have changed in the past decade, but it isn't the first time they've had a 10-bit "Dreamcolor" display. The EliteBook 8740w (2010) had one as an option as well. I have one of those laptops, albeit not with the Dreamcolor display, which would have added considerably to the cost.A couple of reviews that mention it are http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/hp-el... (page two includes the section on the display) and https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HP-EliteBook-...
s.yu - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
@Brett HowseThere we go...
dmytty - Saturday, April 18, 2020 - link
Is OLED an antiglare? Have they eliminated PWM? THere was mention on HP website re ‘flicker’. And CES had demo of antiglare.damianrobertjones - Friday, April 24, 2020 - link
" targets creators and prosumers"So... it's a mobile workstation. No matter what the marketing department says, I'll never accept the phrase, 'creators'. I might have issues. :/
zentwo - Saturday, April 25, 2020 - link
Why no dedicated mouse buttons?