Interesting that 35W TDP is in the range of halo products. That was standard TDP for mobile CPUs in mundane Latitudes and ProBooks back when Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge were being sold.
There are probably two types of halo products nowadays: 5-15W sleek sleeves under 2.5lb and gaudy 5lb+ 45W+ gaming bricks with dGPU named similar to desktop parts. 45W APU or even 35W APU really belong to the workhorse group.
That's sort of what I was thinking. Certainly 35W parts appear to fall into that workhorse realm. Maybe one could argue that 45W parts are halo processors without making too much of a stretch. Then again, I have a *very* old AMD Athlon II P360 in my laptop that is rated at 25W TDP and how we categorize products tends to change over time.
Then we have systems like my Dell Inspiron 7559, 45W CPU + 50W 960M, under 6 lbs.
Excellent cooling, no throttling, play with the power settings and you can see 10 hours battery life. Typical watching a 1080P movie is almost 4 hours.
I don't see the point of 15W laptops even near the 5 lbs mark. That should be 3 lbs *or* 15W with a giant battery and 20 hours battery life.
I'm partially copying my post from the other article.
I've been begging for a logical laptop for the masses. I seriously can't understand why OEMs have refused to even consider it. In what other industry do manufactures refuse to service the needs of 80% to cater only for the odd 20%?
The vast majority of people don't need a DGPU, but they are currently forced to buy one if they want any performance CPU. That costs them more money, increases weight, and reduces battery life (two fold, less space for battery and higher draw).
80% of the market would be incredibly well served with a 35w HS APU. For the 10% who want battery life over anything, they can get a 15w U series. For the 10% who want gaming/workstation they can get a 45w H series + GPU.
Imagine if you could only buy a 2 seat scooter for $15+k, or a massive 4 door 8ft bed truck for $100+k. And there are literally no other options, new or used...there has been only these two choices being sold by every car maker in the entire world. If you want to do anything more than a scooter can handle, you are literally forced to buy a massive overkill option no matter how impractical. That's literally how the laptop market has been for almost a decade.
I desperately hope they will make a laptop with the 35-45w APU and NO DGPU. And not some piece of crap with single channel, terrible screen, 128GB SSDs or HDDs etc.
Based on current Intel designs and prices, I think it should be possible to retail a decent H/HS IGP only option in the $600 range, with premium options starting at $750 (quality slim bezel 15" 1080, high speed 16GB, 512GB SSD, 60+WHr, great wifi, etc).
Was just about to post the same thing. I want a laptop that can idle fine (spoiler alert: most of them can) but I don't mind an extra 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch for the proper cooling to get me a 45w processor. If I attach my laptop in a reasonable-temperature room to a desktop dock, I should be able to forget that it's a laptop (with a good enough dock, of course).
So there's no GPU included here at all? OEMs would need to bundle mobile radeon, or some nvidia offering, while increasing TDP? Meanwhile intel has ice lake/comet lake WITH a decent iGPU, all while fitting into the 35/45W envelope. So what's the big deal with this announcement?
All of the 4000 series APUs (U & H/HS) contain a 7nm Vega-based GPU with up to 8 CUs. It is expected that most models with H/HS APUs will also contain a discrete GPU.
"Nonetheless, the Ryzen 9 4900HS sits +100 MHz above the Ryzen 7 parts, with one extra compute unit and +150 MHz on the graphics frequency, and the Ryzen 9 4900H is +300 MHz on the base over the 4900HS, and +100 MHz on the turbo."
It is understandable that reading is hard for you timecop1818. However, there is also this big table that has all the Ryzen 4000 mobile CPU info in it and it includes the iGPU information. Please stop spreading FUD.
The title has "APU" in it, which literally means a chip with both a CPU and a GPU. The table has a column for "GPU CUs/GPU freq." What more do you need? These have pretty good IGPUs, significantly faster than anything Intel has to offer.
Also, there's neither Ice Lake nor Comet Lake in the 35-45W space, just 15W (9-25W).
Its clear what timecop1818 is doing and so far it has worked rather well to earn him the responses he desires. What we as a community need to do in order to help is follow some basic guidelines the likes of which are listed here:
Where has this rumor come from? For weeks, some people somehow deluded themselves to believe mobile-targeted CPUs were without integrated graphics.
Friends. Today's mobile CPU will always have an iGPU. I don't care *what* wattage: 5, 10, 15, 25, 35, 45. Even Xeon mobile chips have shipped with iGPUs.
It's asinine to think anyone (Intel, AMD) will remove the iGPU from their laptop CPUs. Simply asinine.
You should really educate yourself better on Zen 2 mobile lineup. All Zen mobile APU's to date have had iGPs. Zen 2 mobile is no different.
While it IS accurate that Zen 2 mobile uses Vega iGP, those iGPU cores have been enhanced. AMD specifically mentioned in previous slides 56% higher performance per core over previous iterations.
So, we're looking at about 30% bigger (or more) performance in this Vega iGP compared to the Zen1 and Zen+ mobile APU's (30% because AMD reduced the number of compute units in this iGP to keep everything in the same TDP properly - but its still a decent improvement).
the success of this will depend on their idle power usage. That has always been the reason for not doing well on laptops. nothing in the article points to it.
AMD has previously discussed efforts intended to address power consumption with the new Ryzen processors, but we will have to wait until products trickle out to in order to get a feel for that aspect of new mobile CPUs. I'm certainly interested in seeing what AMD brings to the table because, you are right, with respect to idle usage, they are not currently competitive.
My i5 6300HQ pulls around 2W while watching 1080P video. The idle power usage is essentially the baseline for low usage battery life.
Last gen of Ryzen mobile was about the same as my Sandy Bridge i7, 5W at idle, higher with *any* usage at all.
Compare that to an old Skylake (now nearly 5 years old) that runs 2W watching a video and barely half a watt at idle and the battery life differences are incredible.
Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) – AMD has over 2,000 employees in Austin and all will be required to work on-site, with no talk of any remote work in the future. Several employees expressed discomfort not only due to the size of the campus, but for no restrictions on travel with staff traveling from Europe as recently as last week prior to the travel
That is not just an AMD thing. Companies are trying to coordinate work from home where possible, but certain things cannot be done from an employee's residence. It is a difficult decision to make and there really isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to COVID-19 response. Lots of this is being played by ear since we have no modern examples of how to handle situations like these. Nothing like this has happened on a global scale to post-industrial nations and their respective economies.
From the article that covers many Austin companies with the same issue:
„ Since publication, a handful of staff have told us AMD has responded, and as of today, they are now globally “work from home whenever possible,” for at least two weeks, but previously, it was at manager’s discretion. One employee told us “many managers were not willing,” so this company-wide push to work from home makes willingness irrelevant.“
I agree some work just cannot be done offsite, and with all these product secrecy, it adds to the need for employees to work onsite. It is definitely not ideal, but I feel companies requiring large number of people onsite is also taking a big risk since 1 sick person in the building can spread to many in the compound. I don't know the actual reason why, but I will not jump to any conclusion here.
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
37 Comments
Back to Article
PeachNCream - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Interesting that 35W TDP is in the range of halo products. That was standard TDP for mobile CPUs in mundane Latitudes and ProBooks back when Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge were being sold.R3MF - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Would love to see a Razer Blade-Stealth using the 4900HS.wr3zzz - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
There are probably two types of halo products nowadays: 5-15W sleek sleeves under 2.5lb and gaudy 5lb+ 45W+ gaming bricks with dGPU named similar to desktop parts. 45W APU or even 35W APU really belong to the workhorse group.PeachNCream - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
That's sort of what I was thinking. Certainly 35W parts appear to fall into that workhorse realm. Maybe one could argue that 45W parts are halo processors without making too much of a stretch. Then again, I have a *very* old AMD Athlon II P360 in my laptop that is rated at 25W TDP and how we categorize products tends to change over time.0ldman79 - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Then we have systems like my Dell Inspiron 7559, 45W CPU + 50W 960M, under 6 lbs.Excellent cooling, no throttling, play with the power settings and you can see 10 hours battery life. Typical watching a 1080P movie is almost 4 hours.
I don't see the point of 15W laptops even near the 5 lbs mark. That should be 3 lbs *or* 15W with a giant battery and 20 hours battery life.
EliteRetard - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
I'm partially copying my post from the other article.I've been begging for a logical laptop for the masses. I seriously can't understand why OEMs have refused to even consider it. In what other industry do manufactures refuse to service the needs of 80% to cater only for the odd 20%?
The vast majority of people don't need a DGPU, but they are currently forced to buy one if they want any performance CPU. That costs them more money, increases weight, and reduces battery life (two fold, less space for battery and higher draw).
80% of the market would be incredibly well served with a 35w HS APU.
For the 10% who want battery life over anything, they can get a 15w U series.
For the 10% who want gaming/workstation they can get a 45w H series + GPU.
Imagine if you could only buy a 2 seat scooter for $15+k, or a massive 4 door 8ft bed truck for $100+k. And there are literally no other options, new or used...there has been only these two choices being sold by every car maker in the entire world. If you want to do anything more than a scooter can handle, you are literally forced to buy a massive overkill option no matter how impractical. That's literally how the laptop market has been for almost a decade.
I desperately hope they will make a laptop with the 35-45w APU and NO DGPU.
And not some piece of crap with single channel, terrible screen, 128GB SSDs or HDDs etc.
Based on current Intel designs and prices, I think it should be possible to retail a decent H/HS IGP only option in the $600 range, with premium options starting at $750 (quality slim bezel 15" 1080, high speed 16GB, 512GB SSD, 60+WHr, great wifi, etc).
lmcd - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Was just about to post the same thing. I want a laptop that can idle fine (spoiler alert: most of them can) but I don't mind an extra 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch for the proper cooling to get me a 45w processor. If I attach my laptop in a reasonable-temperature room to a desktop dock, I should be able to forget that it's a laptop (with a good enough dock, of course).Irata - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
I think the most important part is the fact that not everyone can get these halo APU.Guess AMD became tired of their processors being used in craptops / poorly designed systems and are now able to do something about it.
Imho, they should extend the requirement that you can only get the halo CPU if your lower tier models also follow at least minimum design guidelines.
timecop1818 - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
So there's no GPU included here at all? OEMs would need to bundle mobile radeon, or some nvidia offering, while increasing TDP? Meanwhile intel has ice lake/comet lake WITH a decent iGPU, all while fitting into the 35/45W envelope. So what's the big deal with this announcement?csutcliff - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
All of the 4000 series APUs (U & H/HS) contain a 7nm Vega-based GPU with up to 8 CUs. It is expected that most models with H/HS APUs will also contain a discrete GPU.DorothyHansley - Tuesday, March 17, 2020 - link
<a href="https://edubirdie.net/">Edu Birdie</a>schujj07 - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
"Nonetheless, the Ryzen 9 4900HS sits +100 MHz above the Ryzen 7 parts, with one extra compute unit and +150 MHz on the graphics frequency, and the Ryzen 9 4900H is +300 MHz on the base over the 4900HS, and +100 MHz on the turbo."It is understandable that reading is hard for you timecop1818. However, there is also this big table that has all the Ryzen 4000 mobile CPU info in it and it includes the iGPU information. Please stop spreading FUD.
shabby - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Lol 🤣Valantar - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
The title has "APU" in it, which literally means a chip with both a CPU and a GPU. The table has a column for "GPU CUs/GPU freq." What more do you need? These have pretty good IGPUs, significantly faster than anything Intel has to offer.Also, there's neither Ice Lake nor Comet Lake in the 35-45W space, just 15W (9-25W).
PeachNCream - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Its clear what timecop1818 is doing and so far it has worked rather well to earn him the responses he desires. What we as a community need to do in order to help is follow some basic guidelines the likes of which are listed here:https://www.thoughtco.com/the-attention-seeking-ch...
ikjadoon - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Where has this rumor come from? For weeks, some people somehow deluded themselves to believe mobile-targeted CPUs were without integrated graphics.Friends. Today's mobile CPU will always have an iGPU. I don't care *what* wattage: 5, 10, 15, 25, 35, 45. Even Xeon mobile chips have shipped with iGPUs.
It's asinine to think anyone (Intel, AMD) will remove the iGPU from their laptop CPUs. Simply asinine.
The_Assimilator - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Die-harvested CPUs exist.csutcliff - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
to be fair, intel did release early 10nm laptop silicon without an iGPU because intel 10nm sucks balls and it was non-functional.[email protected] - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
are they 8 core / 16 threads also?[email protected] - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
+ the table says there are 8CU's included at 1750Mhz ...Ryzen 9 4900H 8 / 16 3.3 GHz 4.4 GHz 4 MB 8 MB 8 / 1750 MHz 45 W
Ryzen 9 4900HS 8 / 16 3.0 GHz 4.3 GHz 4 MB 8 MB 8 / 1750 MHz 35 W
Teckk - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Where are 45W IceLake and a WhateverNewLake?The graphics is clearly specified here, don't be that bad a troll.
Irata - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Wow, aiming for new lows I see. Even if you don‘t read the article and just look at the charts you can‘t possibly miss that these are APU.deksman2 - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
You should really educate yourself better on Zen 2 mobile lineup.All Zen mobile APU's to date have had iGPs.
Zen 2 mobile is no different.
While it IS accurate that Zen 2 mobile uses Vega iGP, those iGPU cores have been enhanced. AMD specifically mentioned in previous slides 56% higher performance per core over previous iterations.
So, we're looking at about 30% bigger (or more) performance in this Vega iGP compared to the Zen1 and Zen+ mobile APU's (30% because AMD reduced the number of compute units in this iGP to keep everything in the same TDP properly - but its still a decent improvement).
sharath.naik - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
the success of this will depend on their idle power usage. That has always been the reason for not doing well on laptops. nothing in the article points to it.PeachNCream - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
AMD has previously discussed efforts intended to address power consumption with the new Ryzen processors, but we will have to wait until products trickle out to in order to get a feel for that aspect of new mobile CPUs. I'm certainly interested in seeing what AMD brings to the table because, you are right, with respect to idle usage, they are not currently competitive.csutcliff - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
or as AMD put it themselves, intel CPUs are very good at doing nothing!0ldman79 - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
It's more to it than that.My i5 6300HQ pulls around 2W while watching 1080P video. The idle power usage is essentially the baseline for low usage battery life.
Last gen of Ryzen mobile was about the same as my Sandy Bridge i7, 5W at idle, higher with *any* usage at all.
Compare that to an old Skylake (now nearly 5 years old) that runs 2W watching a video and barely half a watt at idle and the battery life differences are incredible.
Irata - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
While idle power consumption is important, who buys a laptop because it‘s good at doing nothing?While low idle power consumption is certainly a good thing, power consumption when actually performing tasks is imho much more relevant.
drothgery - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Idle power consumption is pretty critical to long battery life; non-server CPUs spend quite a bit of cycles idling in most cases.eek2121 - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
My laptop and desktop spend far more time at 0% usage vs 100% usage. Computing scenarios in general are bursty.0ldman79 - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Laptop usage on battery is usually light use. You're not going to encode a video or render something on battery.In those situations early Ryzen kick ass.
In light usage, Intel can drop down to below 1W, Ryzen 2000 and 3000 mobile idle at around 4.5W. Skylake uses 2W to watch a 1080P video.
That's a huge difference on light usage battery life.
webdoctors - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Here's another AMD announcement you can cover:Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) – AMD has over 2,000 employees in Austin and all will be required to work on-site, with no talk of any remote work in the future. Several employees expressed discomfort not only due to the size of the campus, but for no restrictions on travel with staff traveling from Europe as recently as last week prior to the travel
https://theamericangenius.com/business-news/covid-...
They really don't care about spreading the virus.
PeachNCream - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
That is not just an AMD thing. Companies are trying to coordinate work from home where possible, but certain things cannot be done from an employee's residence. It is a difficult decision to make and there really isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to COVID-19 response. Lots of this is being played by ear since we have no modern examples of how to handle situations like these. Nothing like this has happened on a global scale to post-industrial nations and their respective economies.Irata - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
Correct - the infrastructure to do this securely must be set up and that is not an easy task. How about time keeping, insurance etc ?Irata - Monday, March 16, 2020 - link
From the article that covers many Austin companies with the same issue:„ Since publication, a handful of staff have told us AMD has responded, and as of today, they are now globally “work from home whenever possible,” for at least two weeks, but previously, it was at manager’s discretion. One employee told us “many managers were not willing,” so this company-wide push to work from home makes willingness irrelevant.“
watzupken - Sunday, March 22, 2020 - link
I agree some work just cannot be done offsite, and with all these product secrecy, it adds to the need for employees to work onsite. It is definitely not ideal, but I feel companies requiring large number of people onsite is also taking a big risk since 1 sick person in the building can spread to many in the compound. I don't know the actual reason why, but I will not jump to any conclusion here.minakami_yuki - Sunday, March 29, 2020 - link
HS means HuaShuo, the chinese name of ASUS