I am literally bugged to see Intel as of this moment. They are like a paralyzed deer just waiting to get hit by a car while starring at the spot lights.
They're not wrong about IoT. I'm not exactly in love with the phrase, but the alternative is a bit wordy. Anyway, point is, wireless connections and overpowered hardware have been, and will continue to be, popping up in everything from shoes and to streetlamps and sidewalks.
But I don't think they're cut out for that market. That's ARM's forte.
Nothing unusual. None process is used exclusivelly, nor 10nm will be. Ice lake have better perf and more features, will be used as high-end, while cheaper, less featured and slower as mid-range. Maybe Intel plan do the same for other line like desktop, that's why do not put all 10nm capacity into just mobile.
Intel reported (in a confusing graph where they compared them indirectly) that Ice Lake-U is *barely* faster than Whiskey Lake-U, with a <4% higher single thread performance. So if Comet Lake-U is going to be at least 4% faster than Whiskey Lake-U (which might just be the case), a bizarre situation will emerge : Comet Lake-U will be faster than Ice Lake-U in CPU performance, while Ice Lake-U will be faster than Comet Lake-U in iGPU performance - not every Ice Lake-U of course, the 48- and 64-shader ones.
The low CPU performance of Ice Lake-U is due to the very low clocks of Intel's 10nm+ node, which have eaten either all or nearly all the IPC gains of the Sunny Cove architecture. As of this time it's unclear if iGPU clocks will also be affected and to what extent, but I would guess the iGPU block will have much shorter boost clocks.
Makes perfect sense. Comets go fast, but aren't especially pretty. Ice can't go fast at all, but looks great sometimes. (Of course, you can get comets made out of ice, but usually there's other gunk in there as well.)
At least they both have a name which doesn't imply the developers were drunk while making it.
I fail to see how a paralyzed deer multiplies product output: Those don't even shit themselves, whereas Intel shows desperate creativity: Nice to see in others, never nice when the knife is at your own throat.
another sign of confidence in the upcoming 10nm node, launching more products on 14nm in Q4 2019. no worries 10nm is on schedule. this and other CPUs will be refreshed in dec 2019 with high quality 10nm sillicon with no MDS.
Intel's 10nm+ yields are rumored to be atrocious, with very low and through the roof thermals. I wonder what exactly they fixed over their original 10nm node (i.e. the node of Cannon Lake, which apparently was so bad they had to ditch both the node and the CPU series), supposedly with the help of ASML.
The latest rumor mongering from Charlie at Semi-Accurate is that of the 4 planned 10 nm fabs (old 32/22nm fabs), two have gotten 7nm tooling, and a third 14 nm tools. That leaves their theoretical 10nm capacity at 25% of what was originally planned; and more or less locks it in as a low volume node.
Based on the CPU performance comparison between Ice Lake-U and Whiskey Lake-U Comet Lake-U will have higher CPU performance than Ice Lake-U (or, at best, exactly the same performance) while Ice Lake-U CPUs with 48-core and 64-core (but *not* with 32-core) iGPUs will have higher iGPU performance. Ice Lake-U will also have higher encoding performance, which is useful for those who like to encode in hardware, but no word yet about AV1 decoding, which might have to wait for Tiger Lake.
2019 is not the year to splurge on a high-end Ultrabook (soldered draft WiFi 6 chipsets like the AX200, soldered CPUs without hardware AV1 support, and middling single-core performance changes).
So, not only the final processor naming scheme is confusing but the manufacturing node as well. How does marketing even handle this! Oh yeah 10th gen?? 🤔😅
You have to wonder what really happened at Intel. Beyond the PR and the excuses, what massive fail has gone on. In the past if any process shrink went bad they recovered within 6-12 months. This time it's been 4+ years and they still seem to be spinning. Was it they laid off too many of their highest paid/best engineers? Does everyone there just hate it? Seriously, Does anyone know what really happened?
Are you saying everyone else's (Global Foundries, Samsung, TSMC) 7nm is not as good as Intels 10nm? How would we even know that? All we know now is that Intels 10nm chips released last year are shit compared to their Intel 14nm counterparts and that Intel is still bullshitting us with spin regarding the whole subject.
And what about others 7nm versus Intel 14nm ?? Looking at AMD future offering an already mature 7nm from TSMC can not beat or match Intel 14nm in clock speed. Everyone else's 7nm is not even able to allow AMD to build an SKU "full 7nm". Everyone else's 7nm is so bad that do not allow AMD to ship an APU. Come on man.
at least the others are SHIPPING 7nm products in what looks like volume.. intel's 10nm.. very limited.. amd doesnt need to match in clock speed as it looks like with a 400 mhz deficit.. its matching intel in performance.. if amd match intel in clock speed.. it would make intel look even worse what do you mean by " build a full 7nm sku " ??? amd isnt shipping a 7 nm apu.. cause maybe its not ready yet ?? maybe amd chose to ship desktop 1st ? come on man...
For now i see only slow phone SOCs. About AMD i can see only slides and fake SKUs showed to journalists. We ll see what will be the availability of Ryzen 2. Intel have to supply the channels in large volume, AMD nope, some retail SKUs are enough to say "we are faster" ?. We'll se if AMD will be able to satisfy the OEMs demand, in desktop and expecially in mobile that is 70% of the total market.
amd will be better able to then intels over 4 years late 10nm vapor cpus they have been promising.... either way.. we will see zen 2 based cpus in just over 1 month.. will we EVER see intel 10nm in volume ??????
What does clock speed have to do with it? Clock speed hasn't gone up with a process node for a while. Also how many years and modifications did Intel need to squeeze 5ghz out of their 14nm?
gondalf.. actually, he is right.. clock speed has nothing to do with performacnce.. and it has taken intel this long to reach 5 ghz.. with out exotic cooling....
"You have to wonder what really happened at Intel. Beyond the PR and the excuses, what massive fail has gone on."
Exactly. The press does not investigate and report massive failures in huge businesses which cost tens of billions of $$$ to shareholders, countries and often jobs to tens of thousands of employees. You'd think such a massive thing would attract years of reporting and thousands of interviews with former and current employees - but they'd rather report on release of some gadget which is just like another gadget.
With such a problem with their 10nm node, I'm surprised that they did not start talking about it so that other engineers in the field could help them. Not voluntarily, but say, if 1 guy at company X helps them a "lot" then the dude and his company get a free cross licensing deal with respect to Intel's 10nm node. It's better then slowly fading into oblivion....
But, with Intel's cash reserves and size I think they still have a very good chance of a strong return. They can do a lot that much smaller companies cannot; like hire on 1,000 more people to work on 10nm, and/or 1,000 new 10nm machines to brute force their way to a technologically functional 10nm node.
“Given the rumors regarding Intel’s 10nm yields” So NOW even mainstream are starting to admit this? Well, better late than never I guess.
That’s the past 7 yrs of Intel in a nutshell — those outside the iRDF see problems based on a pattern of behavior, with the mainstream only catching up six months to two years later...
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eva02langley - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
I am literally bugged to see Intel as of this moment. They are like a paralyzed deer just waiting to get hit by a car while starring at the spot lights.The Chill Blueberry - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Well they've been sniffing glue and saying IoT devices were the future. So yeah, that's about right.III-V - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
They're not wrong about IoT. I'm not exactly in love with the phrase, but the alternative is a bit wordy. Anyway, point is, wireless connections and overpowered hardware have been, and will continue to be, popping up in everything from shoes and to streetlamps and sidewalks.But I don't think they're cut out for that market. That's ARM's forte.
III-V - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
shoes and refrigerators*TristanSDX - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Nothing unusual. None process is used exclusivelly, nor 10nm will be. Ice lake have better perf and more features, will be used as high-end, while cheaper, less featured and slower as mid-range. Maybe Intel plan do the same for other line like desktop, that's why do not put all 10nm capacity into just mobile.Santoval - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Intel reported (in a confusing graph where they compared them indirectly) that Ice Lake-U is *barely* faster than Whiskey Lake-U, with a <4% higher single thread performance. So if Comet Lake-U is going to be at least 4% faster than Whiskey Lake-U (which might just be the case), a bizarre situation will emerge : Comet Lake-U will be faster than Ice Lake-U in CPU performance, while Ice Lake-U will be faster than Comet Lake-U in iGPU performance - not every Ice Lake-U of course, the 48- and 64-shader ones.The low CPU performance of Ice Lake-U is due to the very low clocks of Intel's 10nm+ node, which have eaten either all or nearly all the IPC gains of the Sunny Cove architecture. As of this time it's unclear if iGPU clocks will also be affected and to what extent, but I would guess the iGPU block will have much shorter boost clocks.
GreenReaper - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Makes perfect sense. Comets go fast, but aren't especially pretty. Ice can't go fast at all, but looks great sometimes. (Of course, you can get comets made out of ice, but usually there's other gunk in there as well.)At least they both have a name which doesn't imply the developers were drunk while making it.
abufrejoval - Tuesday, June 4, 2019 - link
I fail to see how a paralyzed deer multiplies product output: Those don't even shit themselves, whereas Intel shows desperate creativity: Nice to see in others, never nice when the knife is at your own throat.azfacea - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
another sign of confidence in the upcoming 10nm node, launching more products on 14nm in Q4 2019. no worries 10nm is on schedule. this and other CPUs will be refreshed in dec 2019 with high quality 10nm sillicon with no MDS.Ironchef3500 - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
+1goatfajitas - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
I love a bit of well placed dark sarcasm in the morning. +1Santoval - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Intel's 10nm+ yields are rumored to be atrocious, with very low and through the roof thermals. I wonder what exactly they fixed over their original 10nm node (i.e. the node of Cannon Lake, which apparently was so bad they had to ditch both the node and the CPU series), supposedly with the help of ASML.Santoval - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
edit : "very low *clocks*"DanNeely - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
The latest rumor mongering from Charlie at Semi-Accurate is that of the 4 planned 10 nm fabs (old 32/22nm fabs), two have gotten 7nm tooling, and a third 14 nm tools. That leaves their theoretical 10nm capacity at 25% of what was originally planned; and more or less locks it in as a low volume node.Achaios - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
14++++++++++++++++++++At this point, even Intel don't remember what's the correct gen number for this iteration of 14nm.
hMunster - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
So how will 15W 10nm Ice Lake compare to 15W 14nm Comet Lake? Will 1st gen 10nm Ice Lake win on everything but price?Santoval - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Based on the CPU performance comparison between Ice Lake-U and Whiskey Lake-U Comet Lake-U will have higher CPU performance than Ice Lake-U (or, at best, exactly the same performance) while Ice Lake-U CPUs with 48-core and 64-core (but *not* with 32-core) iGPUs will have higher iGPU performance.Ice Lake-U will also have higher encoding performance, which is useful for those who like to encode in hardware, but no word yet about AV1 decoding, which might have to wait for Tiger Lake.
ikjadoon - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Ice Lake (read: Sunny Cove) does not have hardware support for AV1.https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&a...
2019 is not the year to splurge on a high-end Ultrabook (soldered draft WiFi 6 chipsets like the AX200, soldered CPUs without hardware AV1 support, and middling single-core performance changes).
shabby - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Intel: yesqhd - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
I would love an article that lists and gives a short summary of each Intel CPU that has the word Lake in it. I'm pretty confused.29a - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
I second this.sandtitz - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_codena...HAND.
DanNeely - Tuesday, June 4, 2019 - link
That doesn't have code names for unreleased products though. :(DigitalFreak - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
I've heard they are changing the code-name for all their processors to Shit Creek.Teckk - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
So, not only the final processor naming scheme is confusing but the manufacturing node as well. How does marketing even handle this!Oh yeah 10th gen?? 🤔😅
jcc5169 - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Its painful to watch a giant dieAshlayW - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
A giant CPU die, because it's still on 14nm? :Dgoatfajitas - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
You have to wonder what really happened at Intel. Beyond the PR and the excuses, what massive fail has gone on. In the past if any process shrink went bad they recovered within 6-12 months. This time it's been 4+ years and they still seem to be spinning. Was it they laid off too many of their highest paid/best engineers? Does everyone there just hate it? Seriously, Does anyone know what really happened?ikjadoon - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Pardon? Nobody has got transistor density to Intel's 10nm density.We're at the edge of physics here, mate... Intel's primary failure was their insane hubris and cocky attitude claiming they'd deliver 10nm in 2015.
If you want answers to Intel cockiness: please see every monopoly ever.
goatfajitas - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Are you saying everyone else's (Global Foundries, Samsung, TSMC) 7nm is not as good as Intels 10nm? How would we even know that? All we know now is that Intels 10nm chips released last year are shit compared to their Intel 14nm counterparts and that Intel is still bullshitting us with spin regarding the whole subject.1 low end part - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_Lake_(microar...
Gondalf - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
And what about others 7nm versus Intel 14nm ??Looking at AMD future offering an already mature 7nm from TSMC can not beat or match Intel 14nm in clock speed. Everyone else's 7nm is not even able to allow AMD to build an SKU "full 7nm". Everyone else's 7nm is so bad that do not allow AMD to ship an APU.
Come on man.
goatfajitas - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
That and you have to look at things that are released or at least about to be released (Like Ryzen2) vs. Intel's yet unreleased vapor.Gondalf - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Have you see it yet?? I nope.goatfajitas - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
If you are talking about Ryzen 2, I have seen benchmarks - looks like a beast.Korguz - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
at least the others are SHIPPING 7nm products in what looks like volume.. intel's 10nm.. very limited.. amd doesnt need to match in clock speed as it looks like with a 400 mhz deficit.. its matching intel in performance.. if amd match intel in clock speed.. it would make intel look even worse what do you mean by " build a full 7nm sku " ??? amd isnt shipping a 7 nm apu.. cause maybe its not ready yet ?? maybe amd chose to ship desktop 1st ?come on man...
Gondalf - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
For now i see only slow phone SOCs. About AMD i can see only slides and fake SKUs showed to journalists. We ll see what will be the availability of Ryzen 2.Intel have to supply the channels in large volume, AMD nope, some retail SKUs are enough to say "we are faster" ?.
We'll se if AMD will be able to satisfy the OEMs demand, in desktop and expecially in mobile that is 70% of the total market.
Korguz - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
amd will be better able to then intels over 4 years late 10nm vapor cpus they have been promising.... either way.. we will see zen 2 based cpus in just over 1 month.. will we EVER see intel 10nm in volume ??????Irish_adam - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
What does clock speed have to do with it? Clock speed hasn't gone up with a process node for a while. Also how many years and modifications did Intel need to squeeze 5ghz out of their 14nm?Gondalf - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
This is not true, older processes were not able to turbo easy at 5Ghz without exotic levels of vcore.Korguz - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
gondalf.. actually, he is right.. clock speed has nothing to do with performacnce.. and it has taken intel this long to reach 5 ghz.. with out exotic cooling....peevee - Tuesday, June 4, 2019 - link
"You have to wonder what really happened at Intel. Beyond the PR and the excuses, what massive fail has gone on."Exactly. The press does not investigate and report massive failures in huge businesses which cost tens of billions of $$$ to shareholders, countries and often jobs to tens of thousands of employees. You'd think such a massive thing would attract years of reporting and thousands of interviews with former and current employees - but they'd rather report on release of some gadget which is just like another gadget.
AshlayW - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Intel fast on the road to irrelevance.ballsystemlord - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
With such a problem with their 10nm node, I'm surprised that they did not start talking about it so that other engineers in the field could help them. Not voluntarily, but say, if 1 guy at company X helps them a "lot" then the dude and his company get a free cross licensing deal with respect to Intel's 10nm node.It's better then slowly fading into oblivion....
But, with Intel's cash reserves and size I think they still have a very good chance of a strong return. They can do a lot that much smaller companies cannot; like hire on 1,000 more people to work on 10nm, and/or 1,000 new 10nm machines to brute force their way to a technologically functional 10nm node.
peevee - Tuesday, June 4, 2019 - link
You cannot strong-force R&D. "Adding more people to a late project makes it later" - Brook's law.Actual process which works is REMOVING counter-productive people.
name99 - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
“Given the rumors regarding Intel’s 10nm yields”So NOW even mainstream are starting to admit this? Well, better late than never I guess.
That’s the past 7 yrs of Intel in a nutshell — those outside the iRDF see problems based on a pattern of behavior, with the mainstream only catching up six months to two years later...
peevee - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Yay, 14nm! Only 5 months left!Oh, wait...
shabby - Monday, June 3, 2019 - link
Remember folks, only Intel's 10nm is delayed, their 7nm is on track... 😂peevee - Tuesday, June 4, 2019 - link
With 2-year cadence of years gone by, they should have been on "5nm" now and showing "3nm" on slides...ilkhan - Saturday, June 8, 2019 - link
If its made by Intel and not 10nm I literally don't care at this point. Stop releasing new 14nm "upgrades" and get 10nm out.-A Zen2 desktop buyer and someone who really wants a Surface Laptop3 with a 10nm Intel in it this holiday season.