The only design that was competitive was the one selected by Google for one generation. 4 ARM cores + a 5th core for power management was a huge failure when everyone can do PM within the ARM SOC. It was only cost competitive in other words.
The Switch is mobile. When the x1 debuted *four* years ago it obliterated the best from Apple, roughly 50%-100% faster on the gpu side. So yes, if we give the other soc manufacturers four years and a four process step advantage, they can edge out Tegra.
Qualcomm's lawyers should take a bow on nVidia not being still present in the mobile market, certainly not the laughable "competition" they had on the technology side.
"Having a hard time seeing a path forward"... That was a cringe worthy line. Why not benchmark direct x on an iPhone and then say the same about the Ax line? Let's take a deep learning/ai platform and benchmark it using antiquated pc desktop applications and then act like there are fundamental design issues... ?
The tegra X1 doesnt run anywhere near full speed when the device is not plugged into a power source. The Switch also has a fan. It's pretty easy to "obliterate" the competition when you are using a different form factor. I mean, the core I7 with iris pro 580 GPU obliterates the tegra X1, so the X1 must not be very good right?
The X1 was WAY too power hungry to use in anything other then a dedicated gaming device with a dedicated cooling system. When restricted down to tablet TDPs, the X1's performance drops like a lead rock.
So, yeah, maybe with another 4 years nvidia could make the tegra work in a proper laptop. Meanwhile, Apple has ALREADY done that with the A12 SoC, and that works in a passive tablet. Nvidia was never able to make their SoC work in a similar system.
Are you replying to my comment? Xavier is new for 2018 and so is Huawei's Kirin 980. We are talking about Xavier, not X1. And Apple's tablet GPU for 2015 equaled nVidia's in perf. The iPad Pro's A9X equalled the Tegra x1 in GPU performance while surpassing it in CPU performance, and at a lower power draw...
Why are there video ads automatically playing on each one of the Anandtech pages? I know you guys are trying to monetize but you've crossed lines that make it annoying for your users to keep visiting the site.
AnandTech is my reminder to turn the ad blocker back on if I turned it off for some reason. It’s insane how big of improvement in experience it is to block ads on AnandTech.
It is just a matter of time before we will get a message 'turn of your adblocker to proceed' - at that point I will abandon this site. For now, ublock origin keeps this site in check for me.
FYI, 99% of the time I've found I could block notice complaining about having blocked various 3rd party malware distribution domains and still read the site with my crap blockers running.
I have to admit, AT taught me to install adblock, the level of ad annoyance climbed too high for me. I am still willing to pay a sub for a spam-free AT access.
It was THG that got me using AdBlock, but these days I turn off AdBlock on most of the sites I frequent and instead rely on ScriptSafe and Stylus to selectively disable the cruft. It's a little more work for me, but it allows sites I care about to still get revenue from the less annoying ad content, and I cross my fingers that they will learn to insert less annoying ads. Animated = blocked. Sound = bocked. Video = blocked. Causes content to jump around while loading = blocked. Inserts ads that look like navigation features = blocked (I'm looking at You, Google)
"Why are there video ads automatically playing on each one of the Anandtech pages?"
Our publisher (Future) has decided that they want to have this ad unit on every page. Unfortunately there's not much more I can say than that; it's their call.
Could you at least speak to them on ad appropriateness? Mine are the usual low effort clickbait spam ads, or "The One Thing All Cheaters Have In Common" and "Seattle: Cable Companies are furious over this tiny device".
Like I understand your publishers have to advertise, but crappy advertising like this gets the adblock treatment, point blank. Its an extremely frustrating experience for what is supposed to be a professional site.
"Could you at least speak to them on ad appropriateness?"
It's something we discuss on a regular basis. Like any other ad-supported operation we're largely at the whims of the overall advertising market: who is willing to buy ads and at what price. On the whole, advertisers are being very cautious right now, especially with written publications.
Future's size helps a lot with this, since they're a top publisher and can move some very large deals. Not that it's a dire situation or anything nearly like that, but continual erosion in ad rates makes it difficult to get any ads rolled back.
The problem then is a race to the bottom, showing more adverts to fewer people, with installation of ad-blockers accelerating because of that. You need to do a deal with context-based advertising operators like Grapeshot, which should massively improve both relevance and conversions.
You should remind your publisher that the users of this site are tech savy and if the advertisements are annoying they will see a huge boost in adblocker use on the site or a corresponding drop is use. In fact I'd wager that after you turned those auto play video ads on ad block use went up 25% or more and unique views went down.
We understand you need to make money, but your publisher is destroying the site with ads like this. They are the very definition of bad ad's, the only way to make them worse would be to embed malware in them at this point. No video ad should _ever_ be autoplay.
I used to have a problem with this video ad, when I read Anandtech at work (as I uses Citrix virtual desktop and it's slow as hell. Now I don't have this problem anymore.
Regarding NVIDIA's future CPU core development, I think it's important to note that NVIDIA has developed all major IP blocks on the SoC. That probably allows them to work on integration sooner than if they relied on externally developed IP blocks. Also, they have the ability to tune their cores and fabric to their intended application, which is a narrow subset of what ARM is developing for. I'm guessing NVIDIA doesn't tune the performance of their CPU cores using specint or specfp. They probably look at much more specific and realistic benchmarks.
And by the time the Cortex A76AE is available for NVIDIA to use they will probably have a next iteration of their CPU which perhaps will show up in Orin in early 2021 or even late 2020. It's not clear to me what delayed Xavier from NVIDIA's original schedule. It's possible they'll be able to get the next one out with less time between the launch of the underlying GPU architecture and the availability of the SoC. There was a lot of new stuff that went into Xavier other than the GPU architecture, such as the increased safety features, the DLA, and the PVA.
@Andrei: thanks for this review. I wonder if the recent loss of a larger client in the automotive sector (Audi/Volkswagen) to Samsung played a role in Nvidia's willingness to make samples available to you for review. As of model year 2021, Audi will stop using Tegra-based units and move to Samsung's Exynos Auto V9 SoC, which actually features an 8 A76 cores based on ARM's A76 AE design for automotive/vehicular use. While that specialized SoC is still awaiting mass production, I also wonder if Samsung's choice to use straight-up ARM A76 cores (yes, they are AE, so not standard A76) portends a sea change for the mainstream Exynos lines also? As you pointed out, Mongoose turned out to be quite disappointing, so is there a change coming? Would appreciate your insights and comment!
I think in the infotainment sector there's just a lot of competition for cheap chips and a low bar for entry. Any Mediatek or run of the mill cellphone chip should do. I doubt you'd care about ECC or safety in the HW playing your music or watching movies. My current car has an aftermarket unit that's 10 years old that can play DVD movies, has GPS maps and integrates a backup camera.
I'm not sure how you'd program a beast of a chip here, or even what the right benchmarks are since you wouldn't need it just play movies, show maps or run CPU benchmarks. With all the inferencing and visual processing it'd be a waste of resources and money to use it for the traditional tasks done today in cars.
I'm really curious how Anandtech evaluates these specialized products that aren't your run of the mill CPU/GPU/HDD.
This is obviously overkill for the entertainment system. It's main purpose is for the semi-autonomous driving systems like Cadillac's SuperCruise or Tesla's Autopilot.
As far as I know their mobile roadmap still uses custom cores, there's probably different requirements for automotive or they could have simply said that 8 A76s make a lot more sense than 8 custom cores.
Thanks Andrei! Yes, design requirements for automotive/vehicle-embedded are different in key areas (safety/security). However, I was/am struck by Samsung not adapting their own Mongoose design for AE use. Maybe their client (Audi) preferred the stock A76 AE design, and it wasn't economical to adapt Mongoose. However, this now means that the most powerful Samsung SoC design (A76 octacore) might be found in - Audi cars.
They are also losing Tesla as a client. Tesla decided to create their own chip which will theoretically start going into cars in Q2. I would love to see a comparison between the two chips.
This is very minor but I'm surprised the ports/connectors aren't more secure on something meant to be in a car. I would expect cables to be screwed in like classic DVI or twist locked in or some other implementation. I feel like the vibration of the car, or even a minor accident, could loosen the cables. Or maybe I got the wrong impression from the kit.
afaik the generic breakout boards included in dev kits are just for the "dev" part- development and one-offs. a final design would probably use a custom breakout board with just the interfaces needed and in a more rugged form factor thats integrated into the product.
Note that the benchmark results named "TX2-6cores-enabled-gcc-5.4.0" refer to the fact that TX2 had the Denver2 cores disabled by default! Out of the box, it just ran everything on the quad-A57 cluster.
I'm not sure how much to read into that number. Would they really run the A57 and Denver2 cores at the same frequency? Is the Xavier figure really the boost, and not just the base clock?
Again, my point is that I wish the article had looked at Denver2. It sounds like an interesting, if mysterious core.
Jetson TX2 boards are still available - and at much lower prices than Xavier. So, it's still a worthwhile and relevant question how it compares - especially for those not needing Xavier's Volta and Tensor cores.
It isn't so much that the cores are "disabled" (which to me would be something not intended to be turned on) as it is offering multiple power consumption profiles. The whole Jetson market started with the intent to offer it as an OEM reference board, but the reference boards were rather good all by themselves and ended up being a new market. The TX2 Denver cores are simple to turn off or on...but default is off.
Xavier has something similar with the "nvpmodel" tool for switching around various profiles. To see full performance you need to first run "sudo nvpmodel -m 0", and the max out the clocks with the "~nvidia/jetson_clocks.sh" script.
Double the gpu side at 7nm and throw it in an 100-250w box the size of an xbox/ps and I'm in for a new game console. Was hoping they'd re-enter mobile space with Intel/Qcom/samsung modem at 10 or 7nm since they can be included easily without the same watt issues before. NV doesn't need their own modem today (please come back, mobile gaming is getting great!). We need NV gpus in mobile :)
Also, I refuse to buy old tech in your android tv system. Upgrade the soc, or no sale. COMPETE with msft/sony dang it! It's already a great streamer, but you need the gaming side UP and it needs to be a 150w+ box today or just another streamer (sonly msft are going 250w+ in their next versions probably) or why not just buy a $35-50 roku? Sure you can turn off most of it while streaming (or playing bluray), but power needs to be there for the gaming side. The soc is the only thing holding me back from AndroidTV box from NV for years now. I wanted 2 socs in it when it first launched, then they shrunk it and gave no more power. You're turning me off NV, you should be turning me ON...LOL. I have no desire for another msft/sony console, but I'd buy a HIGH WATT android model. None of this 15-25w crap is worth it. Roku take note too, as in add a gaming soc (call NV!) and gamepad support or no more sales to anyone in our family (we're going HTPC, because streamers suck as anything but streaming). We need multi-function at this point or you don't make it to our living room. HTPC fits everything I guess (thus we're building 3...LOL). Streaming, gaming, ripping, well, heck, EVERYTHING in one box with mass storage inside too. ShieldTV units will sell a LOT better (roku too) if you get better gaming in them. Angry birds alone doesn't count Roku!
A 7nm Tegra without all the crap for cars, etc, would be VERY potent. You have the money to make a great gaming box today. Move it into mobile (a single soc one of course) if the tech takes off by adding a modem. Either way, ShieldTV needs an soc upgrade ASAP. Not looking for RTX type stuff here, just a great general android gaming machine that streams. You have to start here to make a gaming PC on ARM stuff at some point. Use cheap machines to make the bigger ones once entrenched. Make sure it can take a discrete NV card at some point as an upgrade (see what I did there, selling more gpu cards, with no wintel needed). At some point it turns into a full PC :)
That said, I can’t wait for my first car that will drive me around while drinking ;) Designated drivers for all Oh and, our tests are completely invalidated by testing a 12nm vs. 10 & 7nm (and outputting with Ethernet hooked up), but but but….Look at our dumb benchmarks. Note also, cars want a MUCH longer cycle than pc’s or worse, mobile devices. These people don’t upgrade their soc yearly (more like 5-7 tops). So a box you plop in with most of the software done, is great for many car models. We are talking ~81-90mil sold yearly globally (depending on who you believe). Even 10mil of those at $100 a box would be a great add to your bottom line and I’m guessing they get far more than that, but you have to make a point at some price here ;) We are talking 1B even if it’s just $100 Net INCOME per box. That would move NV’s stock price for sure. Something tells me it’s 30%+ margins (I’d guess 50%+ really), but I could be wrong. Has anyone else done this job for less than $1500? Also note, as more countries raise incomes, more cars will be sold yearly. https://www.statista.com/statistics/200002/interna... Just as you see here, and the world still needs more cars (heck roads in some places still needed…LOL). Growth. There is room for more than one player clearly for years. Until L5 becomes a commodity there is good money to be had by multiple companies in this space IMHO. Oh and 35mil of those are cars are EU/USA (17.5ea for both). Again, much growth to come as more places get roads/cars, and how many of them have driverless so far? Not many.
At $1500 or under anyone can add this on to a car, as that is cheaper than the $7500 subsidy they have to add to an electric car just to even JOKE about making a dime on them right? And this would NOT be a subsidy. Electric cars are for the rich or stupid. I don’t remember voting for $7500 per car giveaways to make green people happy either! Please KILL THIS ASAP TRUMP! That is 1.5B per car maker (200K cars can be subsidized by each maker). I want a freaking WALL NOW not renewable subsidy crap for products that can’t make money on their own and I am UN-interested in completely as long as gas is available cheaper overall! Screw 5B, tell them $25B or the govt shuts down completely (still a joke, most stays open anyway) for your next 2yrs. Let them pound sand in discretionary spending. :) Only NON-ESSENTIAL people even go home. Well heck, why do I need a NON-essential employee anyway in govt? Let private sector take on all their crap, or just leave it state to state, where they are much better able to handle problems they are versed in.
“The one aspect which we can’t quantize NVIDIA’s Carmel cores is its features: This is a shipping CPU with ASIL-C functional safety features that we have in our hands today. The only competition in this regard would be Arm’s new Cortex A76AE, which we won’t see in silicon for at least another year or more.” “the Carmel cores don’t position themselves too well.”
Er, uh, would you be saying that at 7nm vs. 7nm?? I’m guessing NV could amp the speeds a bit if they simply took the EXACT core and 7nm’d it right (a new verb?)? Can’t see a way forward? Nobody will have its safety features for a year in the segment it targets DIRECTLY, but you can’t see a way forward?...LOL. Never pass up a chance for an AMD portal site to knock NV. Pause for a sec, while I test it with my 2006 tests that well, aren’t even the target market…Jeez. Possibly make sense to go IN-HOUSE? So you’re saying on the one hand that there was NO OTHER CHOICE for a YEAR, but it’s only POSSIBLY a good idea they went in house? I think you mean, it was ONLY POSSIBLE to go in-house, and thus a BRILLIANT decision to go IN HOUSE, and I can see how this chip really goes FORWARD. There, fixed it. Intel keeps offering GPU designs, and they keep failing correct (adopting AMD tech even)? You go in house until someone beats you at your own game, just ask apple. No reason to give a middle man money unless he is soundly beating you, or you are not making profit as is.
So it’s really good at what it was designed to do, and is a plop in component for cars for ~$1000-1500 with software done pretty much for most? But NV has challenges going forward making money on it…LOL. Last I checked NV has most of the car market sewn up (er, signed up? Pays to be early in many things). Cars are kind of like Cuda. It took ~7yrs before that really took off, but look at it now. Owning everything else, and OpenCL isn’t even on the playing field as AMD can’t afford to FORCE it onto the field alone.
“But for companies looking to setup more complex systems requiring heavy vision processing, or actually deploying the AGX module in autonomous applications (no spellchecker before hitting the website?) for robotics or industrial uses, then Xavier looks quite interesting and is definitely a more approachable and open platform than what tends to exist from competing products.”
Translation: When you use it as it was designed, nobody has a competing offering…LOL. You could have just put the last P as the whole article and forgot the rest. Pencils work great as a writing tool, but when we try to run games on them, well, they kind of suck. I’m shocked. Pencils can’t run crysis? WTH?? I want my money back…LOL. Don’t the rest of the guys have the challenge, of trying to be MORE OPEN and APPROACHABLE? Your article is backwards. You have to dethrone the king, not the other way around. Where will NV be in a year when the competition finally gets something right? How entrenched will they be by then? Cars won’t switch on a dime like I will for my next vid card/cpu…LOL. They started this affair mid 2015 or so, and it will pay off 2021+ as everyone wants a autonomous cars on the road by then.
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/nvidia-... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-soars-ai-mar... “we believe that the company is well poised to grow in the driverless vehicle technology space” Arm makes under 500m (under 400 actually), NV makes how much (9x-10x this?)? Good luck. I do not believe off the shelf will beat a chip designed for auto, so someone will have to CUSTOM their way to victory over NV here IMHO. https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2018/09/... BMW chose Intel, Tesla switches (and crashes, ½ a million sold so far?? Who cares), but I wonder for how long. I guess it depends on how much work they both want to do, or just plop in Nvidia solutions. I’ll also venture to guess Tesla did it merely to NOT be the same as Volvo, Toyota etc who went with NV. Can’t really claim your different using what everyone else uses. MOOR Insights isn’t wrong much. They have covered L2-L4 and even have built the chip to handle L5 (2 socs in Pegasus). How much further forward do you need to go? It seems they’re set for a bit, though I’m sure they won’t sit idle while everyone else catches up (they don’t have a history of that). TL:DR? It's a sunday morning, I had time and can type 60wpm...LOL.
FWIW and I know this has been discussed internally at your fine operation (no sarc): But pay option? I'd pay $1-$2/mo to be ad-free. I fully realize it's a PITA to manage that model. I already do this on Medium (barely, barely, barely worth it) and Patreon for others. The time is right, me thinks. Let's pick the Winners from the Losers and be done with it. You folks are in the winning camp, IMO. It almost goes without saying, but, you'all do a great job and thanks for all the work you folks do!
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syxbit - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
I wish Nvidia hadn't abandoned the mobile space. They could have brought some much needed competition :( :(.Despoiler - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
The only design that was competitive was the one selected by Google for one generation. 4 ARM cores + a 5th core for power management was a huge failure when everyone can do PM within the ARM SOC. It was only cost competitive in other words.syxbit - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
The Tegra X1 was a great chip when released.The Shield TV still uses it, and it's an excellent (though now old) chip.
Alistair - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
And that's not a mobile device. Perf/W for Xavier is also really poor vs. the newest Huawei silicon also.BenSkywalker - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
The Switch is mobile. When the x1 debuted *four* years ago it obliterated the best from Apple, roughly 50%-100% faster on the gpu side. So yes, if we give the other soc manufacturers four years and a four process step advantage, they can edge out Tegra.Qualcomm's lawyers should take a bow on nVidia not being still present in the mobile market, certainly not the laughable "competition" they had on the technology side.
"Having a hard time seeing a path forward"... That was a cringe worthy line. Why not benchmark direct x on an iPhone and then say the same about the Ax line? Let's take a deep learning/ai platform and benchmark it using antiquated pc desktop applications and then act like there are fundamental design issues... ?
TheinsanegamerN - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
The tegra X1 doesnt run anywhere near full speed when the device is not plugged into a power source. The Switch also has a fan. It's pretty easy to "obliterate" the competition when you are using a different form factor. I mean, the core I7 with iris pro 580 GPU obliterates the tegra X1, so the X1 must not be very good right?The X1 was WAY too power hungry to use in anything other then a dedicated gaming device with a dedicated cooling system. When restricted down to tablet TDPs, the X1's performance drops like a lead rock.
So, yeah, maybe with another 4 years nvidia could make the tegra work in a proper laptop. Meanwhile, Apple has ALREADY done that with the A12 SoC, and that works in a passive tablet. Nvidia was never able to make their SoC work in a similar system.
Alistair - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
Are you replying to my comment? Xavier is new for 2018 and so is Huawei's Kirin 980. We are talking about Xavier, not X1. And Apple's tablet GPU for 2015 equaled nVidia's in perf. The iPad Pro's A9X equalled the Tegra x1 in GPU performance while surpassing it in CPU performance, and at a lower power draw...Alistair - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
I think you were conveniently comparing the 2014 iPad's vs. the 2015 X1, instead of the 2015 iPad Pro vs. the X1.Samus - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
^^thisniva - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
Why are there video ads automatically playing on each one of the Anandtech pages? I know you guys are trying to monetize but you've crossed lines that make it annoying for your users to keep visiting the site.xype - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
AnandTech is my reminder to turn the ad blocker back on if I turned it off for some reason. It’s insane how big of improvement in experience it is to block ads on AnandTech.Cellar Door - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
It is just a matter of time before we will get a message 'turn of your adblocker to proceed' - at that point I will abandon this site. For now, ublock origin keeps this site in check for me.DanNeely - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
FYI, 99% of the time I've found I could block notice complaining about having blocked various 3rd party malware distribution domains and still read the site with my crap blockers running.TheinsanegamerN - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
Or just use the anti ad blocker blocker in ublock origin.HollyDOL - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
I have to admit, AT taught me to install adblock, the level of ad annoyance climbed too high for me.I am still willing to pay a sub for a spam-free AT access.
linuxgeex - Friday, November 8, 2019 - link
It was THG that got me using AdBlock, but these days I turn off AdBlock on most of the sites I frequent and instead rely on ScriptSafe and Stylus to selectively disable the cruft. It's a little more work for me, but it allows sites I care about to still get revenue from the less annoying ad content, and I cross my fingers that they will learn to insert less annoying ads. Animated = blocked. Sound = bocked. Video = blocked. Causes content to jump around while loading = blocked. Inserts ads that look like navigation features = blocked (I'm looking at You, Google)Ryan Smith - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
"Why are there video ads automatically playing on each one of the Anandtech pages?"Our publisher (Future) has decided that they want to have this ad unit on every page. Unfortunately there's not much more I can say than that; it's their call.
thesavvymage - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
:(thesavvymage - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
Could you at least speak to them on ad appropriateness? Mine are the usual low effort clickbait spam ads, or "The One Thing All Cheaters Have In Common" and "Seattle: Cable Companies are furious over this tiny device".Like I understand your publishers have to advertise, but crappy advertising like this gets the adblock treatment, point blank. Its an extremely frustrating experience for what is supposed to be a professional site.
Ryan Smith - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
"Could you at least speak to them on ad appropriateness?"It's something we discuss on a regular basis. Like any other ad-supported operation we're largely at the whims of the overall advertising market: who is willing to buy ads and at what price. On the whole, advertisers are being very cautious right now, especially with written publications.
Future's size helps a lot with this, since they're a top publisher and can move some very large deals. Not that it's a dire situation or anything nearly like that, but continual erosion in ad rates makes it difficult to get any ads rolled back.
speculatrix - Sunday, February 3, 2019 - link
The problem then is a race to the bottom, showing more adverts to fewer people, with installation of ad-blockers accelerating because of that.You need to do a deal with context-based advertising operators like Grapeshot, which should massively improve both relevance and conversions.
rahvin - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
You should remind your publisher that the users of this site are tech savy and if the advertisements are annoying they will see a huge boost in adblocker use on the site or a corresponding drop is use. In fact I'd wager that after you turned those auto play video ads on ad block use went up 25% or more and unique views went down.We understand you need to make money, but your publisher is destroying the site with ads like this. They are the very definition of bad ad's, the only way to make them worse would be to embed malware in them at this point. No video ad should _ever_ be autoplay.
StevoLincolnite - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
I won't use the internet without an AdBlocker. - Remember years ago when one of Anandtechs adverts was propogating viruses? Not good.On mobile it's just a waste of CPU cycles/battery life.
Lolimaster - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
Firefox mobile + ublockspeculatrix - Sunday, February 3, 2019 - link
Ghostery works well for meikjadoon - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
I'm OK with the autoplaying ad...but why does it have to scroll down with me? It covers up the article text once it jumps around the screen. :(voicequal - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
Hopefully they will consider an ad-free subscription at some point. Google Contributor is one way to do it.Ryan Smith - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
It's something I want to do this year.=) However it's not my call to make, so I can't offer any promises.speculatrix - Sunday, February 3, 2019 - link
I pay actual money to Phoronix to go ad-free. I'd do the same for Anandtech and Arstechnica.mr_tawan - Sunday, January 6, 2019 - link
I used to have a problem with this video ad, when I read Anandtech at work (as I uses Citrix virtual desktop and it's slow as hell. Now I don't have this problem anymore.I've quit my job :).
linuxgeex - Friday, November 8, 2019 - link
Add this line to the following files (linux/bsd or windows)/etc/hosts or c:/windows/system32/driver/hosts
127.0.0.1 ads.servebom.com
job done.
TheinsanegamerN - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
auto video ads are hell incarnate.Yojimbo - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
Regarding NVIDIA's future CPU core development, I think it's important to note that NVIDIA has developed all major IP blocks on the SoC. That probably allows them to work on integration sooner than if they relied on externally developed IP blocks. Also, they have the ability to tune their cores and fabric to their intended application, which is a narrow subset of what ARM is developing for. I'm guessing NVIDIA doesn't tune the performance of their CPU cores using specint or specfp. They probably look at much more specific and realistic benchmarks.And by the time the Cortex A76AE is available for NVIDIA to use they will probably have a next iteration of their CPU which perhaps will show up in Orin in early 2021 or even late 2020. It's not clear to me what delayed Xavier from NVIDIA's original schedule. It's possible they'll be able to get the next one out with less time between the launch of the underlying GPU architecture and the availability of the SoC. There was a lot of new stuff that went into Xavier other than the GPU architecture, such as the increased safety features, the DLA, and the PVA.
DeepLearner - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
I hope they'll send you a T4 soon! I'm dying for numbers on those.eastcoast_pete - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
@Andrei: thanks for this review. I wonder if the recent loss of a larger client in the automotive sector (Audi/Volkswagen) to Samsung played a role in Nvidia's willingness to make samples available to you for review. As of model year 2021, Audi will stop using Tegra-based units and move to Samsung's Exynos Auto V9 SoC, which actually features an 8 A76 cores based on ARM's A76 AE design for automotive/vehicular use.While that specialized SoC is still awaiting mass production, I also wonder if Samsung's choice to use straight-up ARM A76 cores (yes, they are AE, so not standard A76) portends a sea change for the mainstream Exynos lines also? As you pointed out, Mongoose turned out to be quite disappointing, so is there a change coming? Would appreciate your insights and comment!
webdoctors - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
I was also confused by the news of Audi using Samsung chips. I don't think this changes the Audi/Nvidia relationship from googling: http://fortune.com/2017/01/05/audi-nvidia-2020/I think in the infotainment sector there's just a lot of competition for cheap chips and a low bar for entry. Any Mediatek or run of the mill cellphone chip should do. I doubt you'd care about ECC or safety in the HW playing your music or watching movies. My current car has an aftermarket unit that's 10 years old that can play DVD movies, has GPS maps and integrates a backup camera.
I'm not sure how you'd program a beast of a chip here, or even what the right benchmarks are since you wouldn't need it just play movies, show maps or run CPU benchmarks. With all the inferencing and visual processing it'd be a waste of resources and money to use it for the traditional tasks done today in cars.
I'm really curious how Anandtech evaluates these specialized products that aren't your run of the mill CPU/GPU/HDD.
unrulycow - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
This is obviously overkill for the entertainment system. It's main purpose is for the semi-autonomous driving systems like Cadillac's SuperCruise or Tesla's Autopilot.Andrei Frumusanu - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
As far as I know their mobile roadmap still uses custom cores, there's probably different requirements for automotive or they could have simply said that 8 A76s make a lot more sense than 8 custom cores.eastcoast_pete - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
Thanks Andrei! Yes, design requirements for automotive/vehicle-embedded are different in key areas (safety/security). However, I was/am struck by Samsung not adapting their own Mongoose design for AE use. Maybe their client (Audi) preferred the stock A76 AE design, and it wasn't economical to adapt Mongoose. However, this now means that the most powerful Samsung SoC design (A76 octacore) might be found in - Audi cars.unrulycow - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
They are also losing Tesla as a client. Tesla decided to create their own chip which will theoretically start going into cars in Q2. I would love to see a comparison between the two chips.CheapSushi - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
This is very minor but I'm surprised the ports/connectors aren't more secure on something meant to be in a car. I would expect cables to be screwed in like classic DVI or twist locked in or some other implementation. I feel like the vibration of the car, or even a minor accident, could loosen the cables. Or maybe I got the wrong impression from the kit.KateH - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
afaik the generic breakout boards included in dev kits are just for the "dev" part- development and one-offs. a final design would probably use a custom breakout board with just the interfaces needed and in a more rugged form factor thats integrated into the product.mode_13h - Friday, January 4, 2019 - link
Would've loved to see a Denver2 (Tegra TX2) in that comparison. According to this, they're actually faster than Carmel:https://openbenchmarking.org/result/1809258-RA-180...
Note that the benchmark results named "TX2-6cores-enabled-gcc-5.4.0" refer to the fact that TX2 had the Denver2 cores disabled by default! Out of the box, it just ran everything on the quad-A57 cluster.
edatech - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
Same results also says TX2 is running with higher frequency (TX2 @ 2.04GHz while Jetson Xavier @ 1.19GHz), so not quite an apple to apple comparison.mode_13h - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
I'm not sure how much to read into that number. Would they really run the A57 and Denver2 cores at the same frequency? Is the Xavier figure really the boost, and not just the base clock?There's also this (newer) result:
https://openbenchmarking.org/result/1812170-SK-180...
Again, my point is that I wish the article had looked at Denver2. It sounds like an interesting, if mysterious core.
Jetson TX2 boards are still available - and at much lower prices than Xavier. So, it's still a worthwhile and relevant question how it compares - especially for those not needing Xavier's Volta and Tensor cores.
LinuxDevice - Monday, January 7, 2019 - link
It isn't so much that the cores are "disabled" (which to me would be something not intended to be turned on) as it is offering multiple power consumption profiles. The whole Jetson market started with the intent to offer it as an OEM reference board, but the reference boards were rather good all by themselves and ended up being a new market. The TX2 Denver cores are simple to turn off or on...but default is off.Xavier has something similar with the "nvpmodel" tool for switching around various profiles. To see full performance you need to first run "sudo nvpmodel -m 0", and the max out the clocks with the "~nvidia/jetson_clocks.sh" script.
SanX - Saturday, January 5, 2019 - link
Change the publisher asap. The most stupid and insulting ads you will find only at AT. Smells dirt and cheap. Yuck...I don't have such bad impression from YouTube for example, talk to Google guys.
TheJian - Sunday, January 6, 2019 - link
Double the gpu side at 7nm and throw it in an 100-250w box the size of an xbox/ps and I'm in for a new game console. Was hoping they'd re-enter mobile space with Intel/Qcom/samsung modem at 10 or 7nm since they can be included easily without the same watt issues before. NV doesn't need their own modem today (please come back, mobile gaming is getting great!). We need NV gpus in mobile :)Also, I refuse to buy old tech in your android tv system. Upgrade the soc, or no sale. COMPETE with msft/sony dang it! It's already a great streamer, but you need the gaming side UP and it needs to be a 150w+ box today or just another streamer (sonly msft are going 250w+ in their next versions probably) or why not just buy a $35-50 roku? Sure you can turn off most of it while streaming (or playing bluray), but power needs to be there for the gaming side. The soc is the only thing holding me back from AndroidTV box from NV for years now. I wanted 2 socs in it when it first launched, then they shrunk it and gave no more power. You're turning me off NV, you should be turning me ON...LOL. I have no desire for another msft/sony console, but I'd buy a HIGH WATT android model. None of this 15-25w crap is worth it. Roku take note too, as in add a gaming soc (call NV!) and gamepad support or no more sales to anyone in our family (we're going HTPC, because streamers suck as anything but streaming). We need multi-function at this point or you don't make it to our living room. HTPC fits everything I guess (thus we're building 3...LOL). Streaming, gaming, ripping, well, heck, EVERYTHING in one box with mass storage inside too. ShieldTV units will sell a LOT better (roku too) if you get better gaming in them. Angry birds alone doesn't count Roku!
A 7nm Tegra without all the crap for cars, etc, would be VERY potent. You have the money to make a great gaming box today. Move it into mobile (a single soc one of course) if the tech takes off by adding a modem. Either way, ShieldTV needs an soc upgrade ASAP. Not looking for RTX type stuff here, just a great general android gaming machine that streams. You have to start here to make a gaming PC on ARM stuff at some point. Use cheap machines to make the bigger ones once entrenched. Make sure it can take a discrete NV card at some point as an upgrade (see what I did there, selling more gpu cards, with no wintel needed). At some point it turns into a full PC :)
That said, I can’t wait for my first car that will drive me around while drinking ;) Designated drivers for all Oh and, our tests are completely invalidated by testing a 12nm vs. 10 & 7nm (and outputting with Ethernet hooked up), but but but….Look at our dumb benchmarks. Note also, cars want a MUCH longer cycle than pc’s or worse, mobile devices. These people don’t upgrade their soc yearly (more like 5-7 tops). So a box you plop in with most of the software done, is great for many car models. We are talking ~81-90mil sold yearly globally (depending on who you believe). Even 10mil of those at $100 a box would be a great add to your bottom line and I’m guessing they get far more than that, but you have to make a point at some price here ;) We are talking 1B even if it’s just $100 Net INCOME per box. That would move NV’s stock price for sure. Something tells me it’s 30%+ margins (I’d guess 50%+ really), but I could be wrong. Has anyone else done this job for less than $1500? Also note, as more countries raise incomes, more cars will be sold yearly.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200002/interna...
Just as you see here, and the world still needs more cars (heck roads in some places still needed…LOL). Growth. There is room for more than one player clearly for years. Until L5 becomes a commodity there is good money to be had by multiple companies in this space IMHO. Oh and 35mil of those are cars are EU/USA (17.5ea for both). Again, much growth to come as more places get roads/cars, and how many of them have driverless so far? Not many.
At $1500 or under anyone can add this on to a car, as that is cheaper than the $7500 subsidy they have to add to an electric car just to even JOKE about making a dime on them right? And this would NOT be a subsidy. Electric cars are for the rich or stupid. I don’t remember voting for $7500 per car giveaways to make green people happy either! Please KILL THIS ASAP TRUMP! That is 1.5B per car maker (200K cars can be subsidized by each maker). I want a freaking WALL NOW not renewable subsidy crap for products that can’t make money on their own and I am UN-interested in completely as long as gas is available cheaper overall! Screw 5B, tell them $25B or the govt shuts down completely (still a joke, most stays open anyway) for your next 2yrs. Let them pound sand in discretionary spending. :) Only NON-ESSENTIAL people even go home. Well heck, why do I need a NON-essential employee anyway in govt? Let private sector take on all their crap, or just leave it state to state, where they are much better able to handle problems they are versed in.
“The one aspect which we can’t quantize NVIDIA’s Carmel cores is its features: This is a shipping CPU with ASIL-C functional safety features that we have in our hands today. The only competition in this regard would be Arm’s new Cortex A76AE, which we won’t see in silicon for at least another year or more.”
“the Carmel cores don’t position themselves too well.”
Er, uh, would you be saying that at 7nm vs. 7nm?? I’m guessing NV could amp the speeds a bit if they simply took the EXACT core and 7nm’d it right (a new verb?)? Can’t see a way forward? Nobody will have its safety features for a year in the segment it targets DIRECTLY, but you can’t see a way forward?...LOL. Never pass up a chance for an AMD portal site to knock NV. Pause for a sec, while I test it with my 2006 tests that well, aren’t even the target market…Jeez. Possibly make sense to go IN-HOUSE? So you’re saying on the one hand that there was NO OTHER CHOICE for a YEAR, but it’s only POSSIBLY a good idea they went in house? I think you mean, it was ONLY POSSIBLE to go in-house, and thus a BRILLIANT decision to go IN HOUSE, and I can see how this chip really goes FORWARD. There, fixed it. Intel keeps offering GPU designs, and they keep failing correct (adopting AMD tech even)? You go in house until someone beats you at your own game, just ask apple. No reason to give a middle man money unless he is soundly beating you, or you are not making profit as is.
So it’s really good at what it was designed to do, and is a plop in component for cars for ~$1000-1500 with software done pretty much for most? But NV has challenges going forward making money on it…LOL. Last I checked NV has most of the car market sewn up (er, signed up? Pays to be early in many things). Cars are kind of like Cuda. It took ~7yrs before that really took off, but look at it now. Owning everything else, and OpenCL isn’t even on the playing field as AMD can’t afford to FORCE it onto the field alone.
“But for companies looking to setup more complex systems requiring heavy vision processing, or actually deploying the AGX module in autonomous applications (no spellchecker before hitting the website?) for robotics or industrial uses, then Xavier looks quite interesting and is definitely a more approachable and open platform than what tends to exist from competing products.”
Translation: When you use it as it was designed, nobody has a competing offering…LOL. You could have just put the last P as the whole article and forgot the rest. Pencils work great as a writing tool, but when we try to run games on them, well, they kind of suck. I’m shocked. Pencils can’t run crysis? WTH?? I want my money back…LOL. Don’t the rest of the guys have the challenge, of trying to be MORE OPEN and APPROACHABLE? Your article is backwards. You have to dethrone the king, not the other way around. Where will NV be in a year when the competition finally gets something right? How entrenched will they be by then? Cars won’t switch on a dime like I will for my next vid card/cpu…LOL. They started this affair mid 2015 or so, and it will pay off 2021+ as everyone wants a autonomous cars on the road by then.
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/nvidia-...
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nvidia-soars-ai-mar...
“we believe that the company is well poised to grow in the driverless vehicle technology space”
Arm makes under 500m (under 400 actually), NV makes how much (9x-10x this?)? Good luck. I do not believe off the shelf will beat a chip designed for auto, so someone will have to CUSTOM their way to victory over NV here IMHO.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/moorinsights/2018/09/...
BMW chose Intel, Tesla switches (and crashes, ½ a million sold so far?? Who cares), but I wonder for how long. I guess it depends on how much work they both want to do, or just plop in Nvidia solutions. I’ll also venture to guess Tesla did it merely to NOT be the same as Volvo, Toyota etc who went with NV. Can’t really claim your different using what everyone else uses. MOOR Insights isn’t wrong much. They have covered L2-L4 and even have built the chip to handle L5 (2 socs in Pegasus). How much further forward do you need to go? It seems they’re set for a bit, though I’m sure they won’t sit idle while everyone else catches up (they don’t have a history of that). TL:DR? It's a sunday morning, I had time and can type 60wpm...LOL.
gteichrow - Sunday, January 6, 2019 - link
FWIW and I know this has been discussed internally at your fine operation (no sarc): But pay option? I'd pay $1-$2/mo to be ad-free. I fully realize it's a PITA to manage that model. I already do this on Medium (barely, barely, barely worth it) and Patreon for others. The time is right, me thinks. Let's pick the Winners from the Losers and be done with it. You folks are in the winning camp, IMO.It almost goes without saying, but, you'all do a great job and thanks for all the work you folks do!
gteichrow - Sunday, January 6, 2019 - link
Sorry, but meant this to be in the comments below under the discussion about ads that had started. Oops. But thoughts still apply. Cheers.tipoo - Monday, January 7, 2019 - link
Man. Vortex continues to be streets ahead.