The problem with going liquid is, if anything goes wrong with the liquid e.g. leakage, you'll be writing off the motherboard and gpu etc. I'll live with the +3db higher fan noise and slightly higher temps with an air cooler.
Depends. I have a huge case which makes it easy to place under the motherboard. The odds of a leak are pretty small with an All In One solution and my TR is my first foray into water cooling. I have to keep my workstation in an attic with no a.c. and the temps are over 100 in the summer. Works like a charm. It's also a lot less stress from weight on the motherboard compared to the massive coolers I had to use for my previous Xeon.
Liquid isn't feasible in a business or work environment. Chance for failure and damage is too high. Corsair has an average fail rate of 3.4%. For a single company buying 1,000 system that means 34 systems will experience some sort of failure and potential damage and downtime. A single leak could lead to 5K plus in damages and loss of work. Pump breaks during a render? CPU could very likely fry. The same issues do not apply to air coolers.
Looks like someone failed high school statistics. 3.4% does not mean 34 per 1000 will fail. There failure rate was derived from the population, not a sample of 1000. It's possible you can have 1000 units and none go bad. Go study please
What a dick. You are not as educated as you think you are. No shit that 3.4% failure rate doesn't mean 34 of a random sample of 1000 are guaranteed to fail, but it is pretty likely. 3.4% of failure rate is the chance any one of them can fail on you and that's very high. Sorry you were so butthurt over what evernessince had to say. Uncivil twat.
Possible, but unlikely. When you look at the standard deviation of that failure rate you get a reasonable confidence that you'll have at least 27 or so units go bad. It's also perfectly possible you'll get significantly more units go bad...
Yes, I'm aware the std Dev isn't too far off from 3.4%. I was making the point that it doesn't mean that The same % will always fail given a sample size. I don't advocate aio units because of the chance of failure.
BS. You're just here to act like an a-hole and you don't have a leg to stand on.
Your point is that the same % won't be valid for any particular sample? Do you know how statistics and probability work? No, it won't be that exact figure for any sample you can think of. But statistically speaking... it is. 34 out of every thousand fail. It might be that you get no failures on your lot of 1000. But for every guy who buys 1000 and has no failures there's another guy who buys 1000 and has 70 fail. And if 70 fail out of your 1000 you'll probably lose a few more since most likely they come from a bad batch that's more prone to failure.
But have it your way. You want a larger sample size? Take 100.000 units and a 3.4% failure rate. That's what...3400 failed units? Maybe under 3000 if you take standard deviation.
You might think it's better for your case? Wrong! It means technically you could end up with 1000 defective units out of 1000.
Bottom line, 3.4% is huge for something that once broken will not only cause hundreds or thousands of $ in physical damage (destroy CPU/MB/GPU/PSU) but also even more expensive loss of data and productivity. That's not something a business is looking for.
What business will be buying Threadripper CPUs?? This is an enthusiastic product which will mostly ALL be in custom built PCs...your also forgetting that if a leak we're to happen, companies like Corsair will pay for lost components...there's absolutely nothing wrong with using AIO coolers...they offer far better performance than air coolers.
It could also mean that 68 per 1000 fail if that person is unlucky enough to get a bad batch that would average out your imaginary lucky person. It's an average... which 3.4% is excessively high. .00034% might be something a business would be willing to take a risk on, but that depends on the type of clientele and backup systems that are in place. You completely misunderstood the portion on statistical application in the real world.
Not sure if you're serious about the context. Business or work environments are NOT buying a gigantic RGB LED heatsink. They're most likely NOT even buying Threadripper. And guess what, businesses and datacenters DO use liquid cooling, even Summit, the supercomputer does, often using the OEM of these, Asetek. And also people exaggerating the hell out of the risk of failure on AIC/CLCs. Do you seriously think a company is buying 1,000 systems with the "Wraith Ripper"? Look at the actual post context rather than just spouting bias.
Yeah, not off-the-shelf AIOs, though. Custom units installed by the manufacturer and guaranteed to work, coupled with 8- or 4-hour replacement service so that a minimal downtime is incurred, sure - but your average common or garden datacenter won't touch a CLC AIO with a bargepole.
Heatpipe coolers and lots of airflow that's what the majority use.
The problem isn't "liquid cooling is bad" but rather "consumer grade liquid cooling isn't good enough".
Most servers still rely on good old fashioned copper+fan combination. Relatively low tech and reliable. Now you're replacing the "indestructible" copper heatsink with a liquid cooling loop. Basically you're introducing the possibility of having a water leak in your servers. You must have a seriously good reason to to this. Most people/businesses don't.
I sure hope AMD makes 1000000000000% sure if meets or exceeds their rating, as I really do not "trust" CM rating numbers, while they make decent stuff, they often over and under numbers things to "make a sale" or rebadge old products as new and slap a larger price ticket
(example hyper 212+ becomes master air does not really cool any better but costs an extra ~$20) or claiming that hyper 212 is "180w tdp capable" when other coolers such as H7 are only rated for 150w an easily outperform it, or numerous case fans they rate for very high CFM at crazy low DB noise levels (which they cannot achieve in the real world)
This seems like one hell of a beefy cooler, hopefully they also make sure the mounting is top notch because likely the cost of the cooler is going to be very much up there (likely in the $100+ range, just going by the sheer size of it, when comparing other massive coolers like megahalem or noctua d14/d15 or scythe mugen etc)
odd is not 140mm or at least capable of using them if one should desire to get best performance via 120mm or quieter via 140mm.for how tight the fins are or seem to be, likely it will mean need of high pressure fans A and B I cannot directly see how it will NOT interfere with ram modules (but pictures are hard to guesstimate at)
is sexy in a big blocky kind of way, they could have also made the top "cap" be unblemished by screws and instead place them on the sides of the cap ^.^
Regardless of marketing and pricing strategies that they may have taken (I haven't needed a new cooler in a rather long time), the 212 EVO was one hell of a cooler for the price.
I'd rather go with liquid cooling for 250W TDP so I'm not just heating up the entire case and VRMs. I'd also rather go with an Arctic cooler regardless considering they're magically better than all their competitors including Corsair and CoolerMaster while being quieter. Best kept secret if your case can fit it.
Their liquid cooler looks like the same Asetek rebrand as (almost) everyone else. The fans aren't anything special either. How much magic is in these things?
If you set up your fans properly you don't have to worry about heating up the case and the VRM. And if you worry about the VRM you should choose a cooler blowing air top-town, towards the MB, not parallel with the MB. This way you'll have airflow over the RAM and VRM.
I'm gonna troll just like those stat trolls up there (have you read this thread its funny). But anyways here is my troll, he many not have to worry about setting up the fans as much with liquid cooler. I have liquid cooler and still have fans set up right though.
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Dr. Swag - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
Is the fan a 140mm?DanNeely - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
According to Tom's only 120mm. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/threadripper-2-w...Agent Smith - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
That’s f’ing massive !!Those boards must have some reinforcement?
Agent Smith - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
Probably just go liquid after looking at that size.milkywayer - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
The problem with going liquid is, if anything goes wrong with the liquid e.g. leakage, you'll be writing off the motherboard and gpu etc. I'll live with the +3db higher fan noise and slightly higher temps with an air cooler.Fujikoma - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Depends. I have a huge case which makes it easy to place under the motherboard. The odds of a leak are pretty small with an All In One solution and my TR is my first foray into water cooling. I have to keep my workstation in an attic with no a.c. and the temps are over 100 in the summer. Works like a charm. It's also a lot less stress from weight on the motherboard compared to the massive coolers I had to use for my previous Xeon.ACE76 - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
If you get a brand name AIO, they will pay for damages caused by a leak...they rarely, if ever leak.evernessince - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Liquid isn't feasible in a business or work environment. Chance for failure and damage is too high. Corsair has an average fail rate of 3.4%. For a single company buying 1,000 system that means 34 systems will experience some sort of failure and potential damage and downtime. A single leak could lead to 5K plus in damages and loss of work. Pump breaks during a render? CPU could very likely fry. The same issues do not apply to air coolers.srsly_bro - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Looks like someone failed high school statistics. 3.4% does not mean 34 per 1000 will fail. There failure rate was derived from the population, not a sample of 1000. It's possible you can have 1000 units and none go bad. Go study pleaseFlying Aardvark - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
What a dick. You are not as educated as you think you are. No shit that 3.4% failure rate doesn't mean 34 of a random sample of 1000 are guaranteed to fail, but it is pretty likely. 3.4% of failure rate is the chance any one of them can fail on you and that's very high. Sorry you were so butthurt over what evernessince had to say. Uncivil twat.niva - Friday, June 22, 2018 - link
I like your insults, my goal for the weekend is to sneak "uncivil twat" into a conversation.mkaibear - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Possible, but unlikely. When you look at the standard deviation of that failure rate you get a reasonable confidence that you'll have at least 27 or so units go bad. It's also perfectly possible you'll get significantly more units go bad...Go study please!
srsly_bro - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Yes, I'm aware the std Dev isn't too far off from 3.4%. I was making the point that it doesn't mean thatThe same % will always fail given a sample size. I don't advocate aio units because of the chance of failure.
close - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
BS. You're just here to act like an a-hole and you don't have a leg to stand on.Your point is that the same % won't be valid for any particular sample? Do you know how statistics and probability work? No, it won't be that exact figure for any sample you can think of. But statistically speaking... it is. 34 out of every thousand fail. It might be that you get no failures on your lot of 1000. But for every guy who buys 1000 and has no failures there's another guy who buys 1000 and has 70 fail. And if 70 fail out of your 1000 you'll probably lose a few more since most likely they come from a bad batch that's more prone to failure.
But have it your way. You want a larger sample size? Take 100.000 units and a 3.4% failure rate. That's what...3400 failed units? Maybe under 3000 if you take standard deviation.
You might think it's better for your case? Wrong! It means technically you could end up with 1000 defective units out of 1000.
Bottom line, 3.4% is huge for something that once broken will not only cause hundreds or thousands of $ in physical damage (destroy CPU/MB/GPU/PSU) but also even more expensive loss of data and productivity. That's not something a business is looking for.
ACE76 - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
What business will be buying Threadripper CPUs?? This is an enthusiastic product which will mostly ALL be in custom built PCs...your also forgetting that if a leak we're to happen, companies like Corsair will pay for lost components...there's absolutely nothing wrong with using AIO coolers...they offer far better performance than air coolers.69369369 - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
>Go study pleaseno u
Fujikoma - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
It could also mean that 68 per 1000 fail if that person is unlucky enough to get a bad batch that would average out your imaginary lucky person. It's an average... which 3.4% is excessively high. .00034% might be something a business would be willing to take a risk on, but that depends on the type of clientele and backup systems that are in place. You completely misunderstood the portion on statistical application in the real world.CheapSushi - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Not sure if you're serious about the context. Business or work environments are NOT buying a gigantic RGB LED heatsink. They're most likely NOT even buying Threadripper. And guess what, businesses and datacenters DO use liquid cooling, even Summit, the supercomputer does, often using the OEM of these, Asetek. And also people exaggerating the hell out of the risk of failure on AIC/CLCs. Do you seriously think a company is buying 1,000 systems with the "Wraith Ripper"? Look at the actual post context rather than just spouting bias.mkaibear - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
>businesses and datacenters DO use liquid coolingYeah, not off-the-shelf AIOs, though. Custom units installed by the manufacturer and guaranteed to work, coupled with 8- or 4-hour replacement service so that a minimal downtime is incurred, sure - but your average common or garden datacenter won't touch a CLC AIO with a bargepole.
Heatpipe coolers and lots of airflow that's what the majority use.
ACE76 - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Majority of the customers who buy Threadripper or equivalent CPUs use water cooling way more than air cooling.close - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
The problem isn't "liquid cooling is bad" but rather "consumer grade liquid cooling isn't good enough".Most servers still rely on good old fashioned copper+fan combination. Relatively low tech and reliable. Now you're replacing the "indestructible" copper heatsink with a liquid cooling loop. Basically you're introducing the possibility of having a water leak in your servers. You must have a seriously good reason to to this. Most people/businesses don't.
Outlander_04 - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
There are plenty of liquid cooled work station pc's in the world. They are common even.Besides every heat pipe air cooler is also full of liquid, and most often that liquid is water
cmdrdredd - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
Or just a well designed back plate to support the weight. No different than the Noctua Tower Coolers that have been in use for years.29a - Sunday, June 24, 2018 - link
It may screw directly to the motherboard tray. I seem to recall some P4 coolers that screwed directly to the motherboard tray.Dragonstongue - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
I sure hope AMD makes 1000000000000% sure if meets or exceeds their rating, as I really do not "trust" CM rating numbers, while they make decent stuff, they often over and under numbers things to "make a sale" or rebadge old products as new and slap a larger price ticket(example hyper 212+ becomes master air does not really cool any better but costs an extra ~$20)
or claiming that hyper 212 is "180w tdp capable" when other coolers such as H7 are only rated for 150w an easily outperform it, or numerous case fans they rate for very high CFM at crazy low DB noise levels (which they cannot achieve in the real world)
This seems like one hell of a beefy cooler, hopefully they also make sure the mounting is top notch because likely the cost of the cooler is going to be very much up there (likely in the $100+ range, just going by the sheer size of it, when comparing other massive coolers like megahalem or noctua d14/d15 or scythe mugen etc)
odd is not 140mm or at least capable of using them if one should desire to get best performance via 120mm or quieter via 140mm.for how tight the fins are or seem to be, likely it will mean need of high pressure fans A and B I cannot directly see how it will NOT interfere with ram modules (but pictures are hard to guesstimate at)
is sexy in a big blocky kind of way, they could have also made the top "cap" be unblemished by screws and instead place them on the sides of the cap ^.^
jtd871 - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
I bet those screws are for mounting.mode_13h - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
...and that's just what they'll do.mkaibear - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
"or one of these days that cooler's gonna fall on the GPU"PeachNCream - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Alternately, lay the motherboard flat rather than propping it up on one of its edges and component weight is a much less significant problem.mjeffer - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
Regardless of marketing and pricing strategies that they may have taken (I haven't needed a new cooler in a rather long time), the 212 EVO was one hell of a cooler for the price.shadowx360 - Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - link
I'd rather go with liquid cooling for 250W TDP so I'm not just heating up the entire case and VRMs. I'd also rather go with an Arctic cooler regardless considering they're magically better than all their competitors including Corsair and CoolerMaster while being quieter. Best kept secret if your case can fit it.BurntMyBacon - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
Their liquid cooler looks like the same Asetek rebrand as (almost) everyone else. The fans aren't anything special either. How much magic is in these things?close - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
If you set up your fans properly you don't have to worry about heating up the case and the VRM. And if you worry about the VRM you should choose a cooler blowing air top-town, towards the MB, not parallel with the MB. This way you'll have airflow over the RAM and VRM.campcreekdude - Thursday, June 21, 2018 - link
I'm gonna troll just like those stat trolls up there (have you read this thread its funny).But anyways here is my troll, he many not have to worry about setting up the fans as much with liquid cooler. I have liquid cooler and still have fans set up right though.
Outlander_04 - Wednesday, July 11, 2018 - link
Its times like this that make me wish Scythe still made the Orichi