Agreed but a) if they ship it in july not sure the upcoming cheap 2.5G-5G-10G would have made it in time b)since we talking about ryzen not threadripper i think it might become quiet cramp on PCIe lanes , so better to let the customer decide 10G addon or graphics.
At this price I wouldn't expect 10Gbit after considering everything else. And yeah, I'm implying this thing is cheap. The real sweet spot seems to be the $1899 model unless you actually need raw processing power.
Synology, your move. It's interesting to watch these NAS's kill off the need for small business servers. I've been phasing out Windows 2008 servers with Synology Diskstations often the $500-$800 rack models. After offloading exchange to the cloud, DSM effectively replaces a server for most business applications unless you need SQL or a proprietary database.
Of course Windows 2016 Essentials is dirt cheap and offers the same functionality, but it is more complex to manage for small businesses that don't have in-house IT, and after the cost of even an entry level HP ML10v2, a NAS is still cheaper and simpler.
Once QTS gets up to the simplicity of DSM, they will really be challenging Synology. The features are finally there. I've had good luck turning both QTS 4.0 and DSM 6.0 devices into Domain Controllers and cloud managers, but Synology is still lacking in the SharePoint/Onedrive Business integration.
Until Synology can do VM's with GPU passthrough, or even just VM's in general then it's not even a comparison. Synology's software is great, but they never put enough muscle into their machines. They'd rather sell you arm chips which costs $25 a pop.
True. Synology NAS's have pretty weak APU performance, but outside of virtualization, it isn't necessary. For the majority of the market, a 1w CPU is more appropriate than a 65w CPU.
... and it is still an unreliable company with near zero support and engineers who recommend you "format the whole.array" as a catch all solution to any problem, regardless of how small. Buy Synology, you'll thank me later.
Big NAS always is... I am just thinking how powerful the CPU is... These are for really heavy duty servers! They can handle a hundreds of customers at the same time. Home user will newer use the CPU capacity of these things.
Well, they added 3 PCIe slots for GPUs for transcoding and GPU pass-through for VMs. Using this machine as a combination of NAS and VM host makes a lot more sense with such CPUs.
CPU, well is CPU, but running NAS with 64GB RAM without ECC, this is just not for any serious files handling. Multimedia storage would be fine, but then the price is little prohibitive...
I wonder if it prohibitively doesn't support ECC, or just doesn't ship with ECC. Ryzen cache, much like all CPU cache, is at least ECC. Alas, the target market for these things doesn't make them prohibitive by lacking ECC. I just don't see why it wouldn't be supported, though.
Home use can use the cpu...granted niche market but transcoding cd-quality audio to high frequency dsd (256 or 512 DSD) takes cpu power and can now do on the NAS...no pc required.
Yes, a home user could use the power of a Ryzen cpu. I use ESXi and run multiple VMs. One is my pfSense OpenVPN/internet router, the other is a ZFS based system with the SAS card attached using PCI-passthrough. Plex doing transcoding does take CPU, encrypted tunnels take CPU power. I also run other experiments on the box.
It's nice only having one box. Virtualization/Docker are the biggest things to happen to the NAS market! That is what these are clearly for.
Wonder how good the software, does it justify the Syn tax?(pun intended)
QNAP added virtualization support to their platform a few years back; and running a number of other VMs/etc on it is the only reason the amount of CPU/RAM makes sense.
QTS (QNAP's OS) is effectively a Linux-based server OS along the lines of DSM (Synology's OS) and both have most of the functionality of Windows Server: Domain Controller, MySQL, DNS, DHCP, RAS, VPN, VM, Backup, Cloud Sync, even POP/IMAP although I don't know why anyone wouldn't just use Hosted Exchange or Gmail Pro...do people really run their own local mail servers anymore?
I've replaced entry level business servers with NAS's for years. Many predicted the death of the small business server when Microsoft changed their focus to the cloud. And they are all right.
Microsoft loses me with just starting to look into its server licensing. Totally mystifying. Okay a decent mid-range NAS with simple open file-sharing it is then! Most of my customers are 10 users or fewer and don't want or have a dedicated IT support dept. NAS wins.
At this price point, I would expect SAS backplanes. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me when you can get a used Dell PowerEdge T320/T620 with 1 or 2 Xeon CPU's, 6-12 DDR3 ECC slots, redundant PSU's, and 8x3.5” SAS hot swap bays for 1/4 to 1/2 the price. You could also do something like a Dell PowerEdge R510 gen 2 with 12x3.5" SAS hot swap bays for 1/4 the price. I guess if warranty and support is a concern, I could see the benefit, though.
My newbie hardware only 2c, is that it sounds like making a silk purse from a sows ear, with epyc mere weeks away, & then threadripper.
u will always be dodging lane shortages and settling for low bandwidth.
first thing i would want is ~4 x 4 lane pcie3 m.2 nvm ports - 16 lanes there alone. 10Gb lan is ~2 lanes. If its a vm server, some 16lane gpuS would be nice.
ryzen am4 x350 has 20 lanes, x370 chipset, 24 lanes - & rigidities about splitting them for use.
Epyc/threadripper are 128/64 lane. Quite a bump.
Already we are seeing AMD x399 mobos w/ 3 x m.2 native 4 lane sockets - an expensive card as an add on.to a server.
If, as others here say, its likely to be used for VM & hence need big ram, then AMD have just the native tools for using our newfound radically faster nvme storage as vast pools of virtual memory. But first u gotta have the lanes for the lane hungry nvmeS.
If u r happy with an 8 lane gpu on ryzen/am4 - maybe.
You are right. Please, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the pch have only 4 lanes total to the CPU. 2×4 (M2) + 8 (12 channel HBA) + 2×2 (10GbE ) = 4 ????
Wish it came in black like the Intel Based NAS's. I'm a little mad about the pricing (these cpu's are cheap, but qnap is charging Intel money here). Hopefully the motherboard will have a socket CPU so users can buy the mid-range model and plop in a $300 8 core cpu.
Also i'm glad most models come with a 450w PSU which is needed if your gonna add a GPU. On the Skylake Qnap NAS's, they all come with a piddly 250w PSU and the 450W PSU upgrade is a $300 addon option.
They are out of their minds if they think the < $200 CPU cost difference and < $400 Memory difference equates to a $1,500 difference in product retail.
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Gothmoth - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
no 10Gbase.... isn´t it time?plopke - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
Agreed buta) if they ship it in july not sure the upcoming cheap 2.5G-5G-10G would have made it in time b)since we talking about ryzen not threadripper i think it might become quiet cramp on PCIe lanes , so better to let the customer decide 10G addon or graphics.
billybeer321 - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
It can support it via add-in cards. The last photo shows dual 10G ports in the upper left.Samus - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
At this price I wouldn't expect 10Gbit after considering everything else. And yeah, I'm implying this thing is cheap. The real sweet spot seems to be the $1899 model unless you actually need raw processing power.Synology, your move. It's interesting to watch these NAS's kill off the need for small business servers. I've been phasing out Windows 2008 servers with Synology Diskstations often the $500-$800 rack models. After offloading exchange to the cloud, DSM effectively replaces a server for most business applications unless you need SQL or a proprietary database.
Of course Windows 2016 Essentials is dirt cheap and offers the same functionality, but it is more complex to manage for small businesses that don't have in-house IT, and after the cost of even an entry level HP ML10v2, a NAS is still cheaper and simpler.
Once QTS gets up to the simplicity of DSM, they will really be challenging Synology. The features are finally there. I've had good luck turning both QTS 4.0 and DSM 6.0 devices into Domain Controllers and cloud managers, but Synology is still lacking in the SharePoint/Onedrive Business integration.
Morawka - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Until Synology can do VM's with GPU passthrough, or even just VM's in general then it's not even a comparison. Synology's software is great, but they never put enough muscle into their machines. They'd rather sell you arm chips which costs $25 a pop.Samus - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
True. Synology NAS's have pretty weak APU performance, but outside of virtualization, it isn't necessary. For the majority of the market, a 1w CPU is more appropriate than a 65w CPU.halcyon - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
... and it is still an unreliable company with near zero support and engineers who recommend you "format the whole.array" as a catch all solution to any problem, regardless of how small.Buy Synology, you'll thank me later.
ken.c - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
RAID60 on 8 drives (or I guess you could do 12 with a buncha 2.5s and adapters?) seems ...excessive.Notmyusualid - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
Price....haukionkannel - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
Big NAS always is...I am just thinking how powerful the CPU is... These are for really heavy duty servers! They can handle a hundreds of customers at the same time. Home user will newer use the CPU capacity of these things.
ken.c - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
Not with that number of drives. Over CPU'd for qty of drives. I guess if they were all flash, you might be ok with that many users.MrSpadge - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
Well, they added 3 PCIe slots for GPUs for transcoding and GPU pass-through for VMs. Using this machine as a combination of NAS and VM host makes a lot more sense with such CPUs.Hurr Durr - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
Neither of listed processors is for server use.kgardas - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
CPU, well is CPU, but running NAS with 64GB RAM without ECC, this is just not for any serious files handling. Multimedia storage would be fine, but then the price is little prohibitive...Samus - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
I wonder if it prohibitively doesn't support ECC, or just doesn't ship with ECC. Ryzen cache, much like all CPU cache, is at least ECC. Alas, the target market for these things doesn't make them prohibitive by lacking ECC. I just don't see why it wouldn't be supported, though.JCB994 - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
Home use can use the cpu...granted niche market but transcoding cd-quality audio to high frequency dsd (256 or 512 DSD) takes cpu power and can now do on the NAS...no pc required.Shiitaki - Friday, June 16, 2017 - link
Yes, a home user could use the power of a Ryzen cpu. I use ESXi and run multiple VMs. One is my pfSense OpenVPN/internet router, the other is a ZFS based system with the SAS card attached using PCI-passthrough. Plex doing transcoding does take CPU, encrypted tunnels take CPU power. I also run other experiments on the box.It's nice only having one box. Virtualization/Docker are the biggest things to happen to the NAS market! That is what these are clearly for.
Wonder how good the software, does it justify the Syn tax?(pun intended)
sorten - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
There's clearly something I don't understand about NAS. Why would you need a powerful CPU and 64GB of RAM for a box of hard drives?SpetsnazAntiVIP - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
Plex or virtualizationbigboxes - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
Not to mention a lot of users.sorten - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
so this is doing double duty as a server and a NAS box?DanNeely - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
QNAP added virtualization support to their platform a few years back; and running a number of other VMs/etc on it is the only reason the amount of CPU/RAM makes sense.Samus - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
QTS (QNAP's OS) is effectively a Linux-based server OS along the lines of DSM (Synology's OS) and both have most of the functionality of Windows Server: Domain Controller, MySQL, DNS, DHCP, RAS, VPN, VM, Backup, Cloud Sync, even POP/IMAP although I don't know why anyone wouldn't just use Hosted Exchange or Gmail Pro...do people really run their own local mail servers anymore?Samus - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
I've replaced entry level business servers with NAS's for years. Many predicted the death of the small business server when Microsoft changed their focus to the cloud. And they are all right.jabber - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Microsoft loses me with just starting to look into its server licensing. Totally mystifying. Okay a decent mid-range NAS with simple open file-sharing it is then! Most of my customers are 10 users or fewer and don't want or have a dedicated IT support dept. NAS wins.SpetsnazAntiVIP - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
At this price point, I would expect SAS backplanes. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me when you can get a used Dell PowerEdge T320/T620 with 1 or 2 Xeon CPU's, 6-12 DDR3 ECC slots, redundant PSU's, and 8x3.5” SAS hot swap bays for 1/4 to 1/2 the price. You could also do something like a Dell PowerEdge R510 gen 2 with 12x3.5" SAS hot swap bays for 1/4 the price. I guess if warranty and support is a concern, I could see the benefit, though.Communism - Saturday, June 10, 2017 - link
"Consumer NAS" boxes has been, and likely will be for the foreseeable future, all about fleecing the technically illiterate.webdoctors - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
I was thinking the same thing. With this pricing, aren't you getting into NetApp territory?msroadkill612 - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
My newbie hardware only 2c, is that it sounds like making a silk purse from a sows ear, with epyc mere weeks away, & then threadripper.u will always be dodging lane shortages and settling for low bandwidth.
first thing i would want is ~4 x 4 lane pcie3 m.2 nvm ports - 16 lanes there alone. 10Gb lan is ~2 lanes. If its a vm server, some 16lane gpuS would be nice.
ryzen am4 x350 has 20 lanes, x370 chipset, 24 lanes - & rigidities about splitting them for use.
Epyc/threadripper are 128/64 lane. Quite a bump.
Already we are seeing AMD x399 mobos w/ 3 x m.2 native 4 lane sockets - an expensive card as an add on.to a server.
If, as others here say, its likely to be used for VM & hence need big ram, then AMD have just the native tools for using our newfound radically faster nvme storage as vast pools of virtual memory. But first u gotta have the lanes for the lane hungry nvmeS.
If u r happy with an 8 lane gpu on ryzen/am4 - maybe.
Morawka - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
8 lane works fine for GPU's as long as it's PCIE 3. Gaming laptops have been using less for years.drajitshnew - Monday, June 12, 2017 - link
You are right. Please, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the pch have only 4 lanes total to the CPU.2×4 (M2) + 8 (12 channel HBA) + 2×2 (10GbE ) = 4 ????
Morawka - Sunday, June 11, 2017 - link
Wish it came in black like the Intel Based NAS's. I'm a little mad about the pricing (these cpu's are cheap, but qnap is charging Intel money here). Hopefully the motherboard will have a socket CPU so users can buy the mid-range model and plop in a $300 8 core cpu.Morawka - Thursday, June 15, 2017 - link
Also i'm glad most models come with a 450w PSU which is needed if your gonna add a GPU. On the Skylake Qnap NAS's, they all come with a piddly 250w PSU and the 450W PSU upgrade is a $300 addon option.utferris - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
Not sure anyone will buy a NAS without ECC memory. I will never use such a server to handle my valuable data.Morawka - Thursday, August 17, 2017 - link
I wonder what form factor the power supply is? I'd like to put a higher wattage plus more efficient Replacement.Morawka - Thursday, August 17, 2017 - link
Also it's August and you still can't buy these in the USA.Paldren - Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - link
They are out of their minds if they think the < $200 CPU cost difference and < $400 Memory difference equates to a $1,500 difference in product retail.teddybear168 - Sunday, October 29, 2017 - link
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