While I'm not sure why Optane SSDs haven't been released yet, the delay makes it seem quite possible that Samsung may release their Z-SSDs first. Always nice to see competition between currently the best SSD designers (junky Intel 600p notwithstanding)!
Optane appears to be mostly hype, for we've heard so much about its superior density and now we hear it comes to consumers in the form of piny capacity "cache".
Quite frankly, nand flash is good enough, all it needs is better caching, more cache and more intelligent controllers. That alone can do miracles in terms of performance, the rest is just parallelism, which increases the rate cache can be filled from or flushed to.
Currently SSDs tend to do slower because they do controller level parallelism, so the low flash die count reflects negatively on the maximum throughput rates. But nand flash can be made incorporating die level parallelism, where one splits capacity to offer multiple channels per die, making it possible to achieve tens of gigabytes per second without the need of numerous dies, only bigger and more powerful controllers.
Multi channel nand flash dies + more ram cache + better controllers + a trivial LiPo battery to facilitate larger cache flushing can produce ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE faster SSDs without the need of ANY new and as usual overpriced technology.
While I often disagree with ddriver complaining about something, and especially the way he's saying it, you trying to insult him with being disabled is definitely worse. At least he sometimes has objectively valid points.
Its really great to have Samsung in the market - in the last 6+ years, they are the only company pushing the envelope. Intel goes and tries to squeeze and milk the market then BAM - 840 PRO, 850 PRO, 960 PRO.
And to be fair at much lower premiums then what Intel charged when x-25 was around and would be charging end customers if they could.
"Its really great to have Samsung in the market" - and its CEO is currently in court, the company lost a good 5+ billion on the note fiasco and is about to be dismembered into tiny pieces.
That's what happens when a puppet begins to outshine its master. It gets knocked down couple of notches. And by puppet and master I mean the fact that S. Korea is a US puppet state.
Merely pointing out that "pushing the envelope" doesn't come without consequences. Samsung has become too successful for its own good, making a number of big and important us corporations look bad and taking away from their profits.
Their product value has already decreased the last year, and in the years to come they will also dial down on the technological leadership they have exhibited for a few years now.
Pfff... pitiful tin foil... amateurs. I am miles ahead, grounded the sheet metal clad rockwool panels of my home, forming a functional Faraday cage that blocks off the entire EM spectrum save for gamma rays. I mostly did it for radio silence in my electronics lab, but turned out to have myriad applications.
U have something better than "tin foil", "conspiracy theory" and "shape-shifting reptilians"? No? Didn't think so ;) Not exactly creative and knowledgeable the kind of people who throw such cliches around.
ddriver, none of the scandals Samsung is involved in have anything to do with SSDs. It's business and politics, it's rushing tech out in the phone segment, not SSD tech.
come on Samsung is so much bigger than Intel and has been for a long time. 2014 revenue: $305 billion vs Intel's $59.38 billion in 2016. You might want to look up "chaebol" and realize Samsung is the largest. "Begins to outshine its master" happened a long time ago
If memory serves, given that Samsung is involved with everything from smartphones to washing machines to boats, I don't think it is surprising that their revenue is that large. Imagine the profit comparison doesn't paint the 6x difference you want.
How large samsung is generally is not an issue, as long as that doesn't step into US companies which have "national interests" priority, because it doesn't take away money from them, nor does it force them to innovate, improve value or drop prices.
When the EU fined apple for tax dodging, several high ranking US officials called that "attack on US national interests". A few weeks later the note 7 starts exploding, and everyone rushes to buy the new mediocre iphone for lack of a flagship that doesn't go boom. Apple took in most of the money that would have gone to samsung, while the latter lost 5+ billion in the recall.
I am sure that was "pure luck", or the almighty showing his love for apple, it could not possibly be an act of deliberate industrial sabotage, right?
True, I mean it can't possibly be a bad batch of batteries or a messed up battery chemistry. I mean, who ever heard of exploding LiON batteries? Totally unheard of in this industry. Obviously it must be a conspiracy. It's not like anyone else has ever had an exploding battery fiasco across an entire product launch. Except the one that hit Apple a few years back in their laptops. And the one that hit Dell. And the entire line of Sony batteries that time bombed across several OEMs. And the HP one. Other than that, it's basically unheard of, so industrial espionage is obviously the most likely explanation!
It's so sad when a commenter whom I generally respect on technical matters turns out to be so misinformed about the word.
South Korea is an amazing success story, both for the people of Korea, as well as the United States and its allies who spent so much blood, sweat and tears to defend it.
South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, these are Asia's success stories of the 20th century. Successes that illustrate that the post war world order was good for everyone, unlike what the populists want you to believe today.
On the contrary, I am more informed than I am supposed to be. And what is sad is your one sided, media fabricated world view.
After the Korean war, up until the late 70s N. Korea did really well, its standard of living was on par with that of S. Korea, and it even surpassed it economically. It wasn't until the US convinced Russia(Soviet Union back then) and China to cut their support for NK in exchange for "warming relations" that the US imposed isolation began to take effect. And with a constant threat to their security (the US trains "lets invade NK" twice every year just a few miles from its borders), the NKs have been forced to allocate a tremendous amount of resources to their defense, in pretty much complete isolation. And makes their aspirations for nuclear weapon completely understandable.
SK doesn't owe its prosperity to being a US puppet state, it did that on its own. But NK owes its misery entirely to the US, without which today it would likely be just as prosperous as SK, even if under a more totalitarian regime (the SK wasn't exactly democratic most of the time, and now that they got a democratic president, she is impeached).
Tears... that's rich. The US only cares about SK for the strategic military importance to utilize against Russia and China. Unlike the Korean war, today the US has the military capacity to vaporize 98% of the NK military complex in a matter of hours. And even if China and Russia mind it, they wouldn't be able to do much other than to condemn it on a UNSC meeting. But why would the US bother? NK doesn't have strategic resources, and the US already has all the military bases they need in the region from occupied SK and Japan. The US doesn't really care about the suffering of the SK people either, if it did, it would not have inflicted those in the first place. What the US needs is the "evil rogue NK regime" to put on the media in attempts to convince the world there is a regime more evil and dangerous than their own.
As for Taiwan - when the Chinese communists rebelled and literally annihilated the ROC, its elite ran to Taiwan with pretty much all of the nation's wealth, where they were saved by the US navy. Which made the upcoming decades very difficult for China, and it also makes their success understandable, if is quite easy to "make it" on a small island with the entire wealth of mainland China in your hands. Alas in just a few years the mighty Taiwanese semiconductor industry will be totally eclipsed by the Chinese, despite being under an oppressive totalitarian communist regime. Most of the big tech corporations of Taiwan have moved to mainland China just to stay competitive. Unlike upstart Taiwan, China did actually manage to craw out of the gutter, by being everyone's cheap errant boy, to become a world power that will in all likelihood dethrone the US led western hegemony in less than 2 decades, without sinking in debt and without being anyone's bitch - now here is your SUCCESS STORY.
Japan, much like Korea, was been industrious long before WW2, and owe nothing of its success today to anyone but its own people.
Finally, speaking about the people of SK, I don't think they qualify for a success story. Their industry yes, but their people - far from it. Its population is declining, it ranks at the top in suicide rates, especially in young people, and is the absolute record holder at cosmetic surgery, because Korean people are ashamed to look Korean and spend mad money to look like Europeans. This is not a healthy population. Japan ain't that much healthier demographically either. In Japan and SK they now sell more adult diapers than baby diapers. Projections are those people will vanish in a century and a half, provided of course our civilization makes it that long.
Another gem on the subject you most likely are ignorant of is that during the Korean war, the majority of war crimes, massacres, prosecutions and such were committed not by the "evil NK" but by the SK forces, with the Bodo League massacre and the National Defense Corps Incident alone have resulted in over 200 000 deaths.
And before any of them armchair intellectual easily dismiss the content of this post as the obligatory "conspiracy theory" - everything contained herein can be easily verified by googling and reading mainstream articles about it, including on pro-western-biased wikipedia.
Free education and hoRyzen broadening I am obligated to offer at the sight of my fellow humans wallowing in ignorance.
Damn it, now "Ryzen" is totally ruined for me. My first reaction was "risen" as in "amd from the dead", but they said it is about horizon. Now that I spelled it hoRyzen it rings like a "ho risen"...
Now, may I suggest instead of debating random commenters on a technical website about the Korean war, you apply your time and try and get into a community college? I think their standards have fallen so much, you might have a shot at getting g in this time.
Or if you're not in the US, your local vocational training institute.
I see now, it wasn't you being ignorant and uneducated, it was you baiting me. You clever fox you :D
And let me guess, if I didn't call on your ignorance, I would be "sitting quietly in the corner, shamed" because "you showed me", right?
Now that's the kind of "can't lose, broken penny worth, desperate to appear smart" technique every clueless wannabe takes when he's got nothing of actual substance and value. You know, I actually have psychology papers written on people like you ;)
Sending me off to community college, now that's classy? Is that where you went to become a barber who comments at a tech site to feel intelligent? I wouldn't bother even with Harvard, Stanford or MIT, because digest their 5 year curriculum in 5 months casually. Total waste of time for people who can't learn unless they pay a ton of money to have someone drag them through the learning process.
Imagine me taking offense from someone who is here just to clap his hands at every article and be like "me gets tech, me so smart". That would be the day LOL
Lord-Bryan - Go for the jugular, my man. :-) As I stated earlier, just what do all these silly diatribes have to do with z-nand? If I had an interest in this type of silly crap, I'd read People magazine or watch CNN. Come on folks, I thought we were supposed to be sharing ideas about new products - not our anal, self-serving opinions on unrelated subjects.
Nope, what you are supposed to do is clap your hands in attempts to look smart. I however did share an idea for a product, it was my first comment in this article.
If you think you could see or hear any of what I said in people magazine or on cnn, then you are completely detached from reality :)
Yes @bloodinmyveins, he should go easy on AT readers. We don't want him to have more opportunities to show his skills ;). http://imgur.com/a/kW0V6
*Stories about how he knows more than anyone else around here - Check *Proof that he knows more than anyone else around here - Missing *Basic knowledge of common concepts used especially in his (purported) field - Missing
You could be a great story teller ddriver. Well... typing them, at least. :)
ddriver, whenever you go on a rant and try to pretend you're somehow privy to some information that nobody else has (more than you're supposed to be even o_O) or what highly specialized multiphysics simulations you do in your free time I will remind you that you are a person who doesn't know the difference between a millisecond and a microsecond.
Yes, the last time you tried to support a claim you just proved you're the person who thinks ms stands for microsecond. This puts in perspective your "engineering" knowledge. Coupled with the fact that you have a Cyrillic (or related) keyboard layout I will go ahead and confidently say your opinions aren't "more informed", they are at the very least equally biased by facts in the media and personal preference.
And while a dose of bias is normal/expected, insisting that you're above everyone else and that your opinions are fact while failing to provide anything to support other than the glaring holes highlighted earlier places plenty of your comments somewhere between ridiculous and pathetic.
I understand your hesitation to present facts to support your statements since they mostly tend to discredit you but this is a tech site not a blog. And the comment section shouldn't be used to editorialize.
It's a typo silly. I deal with milliseconds numerous times a day, but rather rarely with microseconds, in fact about 100 times less frequently than nanoseconds. It is now in the muscle memory of my fingers. And since I don't have the habit of looking neither at the display nor in my fingers, I often make such typos. And since there is no edit functionality here, there is no way to edit that.
Nice of you to take screenshots and so on, seeing you have finally found a purpose in life, but building a case on that? Come on, you'd be better off to revert back to 5 inch HDDs ;)
Finally, there is absolutely no need to prove anything, my competence and far-out-of-the-box way of thinking are eloquent enough already. I certainly don't need to "out-prove" anyone, as none of my "opponents" have proven anything, or even displayed tangible signs of remote competence. And last but not least, I do enjoy and value my privacy, and the last thing I want is to have to deal with disillusioned wannabe online troll stalkers going after me, my family or my enterprises. You are free to have your doubts, if it helps you sleep at night ;)
You accuse others of not proving anything yet you, yourself, did not offer ANY proof to back up your claim up there that the note7 situation was sabotage.
Seriously though, next time you accuse others of not providing proof maybe you should bother following your own advice. Unless it's to shitty to follow yourself. I mean you write boatloads of stuff, you're all over the place, saying everything you can imagine but not once are you supporting it in any meaningful way.
Simply saying that you know maybe more than you should without evidence makes you sound like a teenager bragging with his many sexual conquests without saying they were measured in gigabytes.
ddriver - I'll grant that you may have several valid points in your lengthy post and as a retired EE who at age 69 had 40+ years in the industry, I certainly would not wish to enter a discussion about the validity of your comments. But, now help me here, isn't this supposed to be a technical/development discussion about products and not about our conception of history and/or world affairs? Just wondering...
"But, now help me here, isn't this supposed to be a technical/development discussion about products and not about our conception of history and/or world affairs"
Sure thing old timer.
It is not about either. It is about "wow, new tec, so cool, me want (even if me doesn't need or can't afford or even make use of). It is not really about the technology, it is about technology related, often blind, irrational and technologically ignorant consumerism and believing that showing interest makes you look smart. It is quite often that you see either implied or even direct statements boiling down to a rather paradoxical "AT readers are smart, because they are AT readers, and they are AT readers, because they are smart".
And it wasn't me who picked it up really, with the "South Korean success story". All I did was point out that samsung is currently being put in its place after stepping on the toes of some "important" US corporations. But once faced with the blatant ignorance of that fellow human, how could I possibly leave that unaddressed? Granted, I am well aware that in all probability it will not really help him out, but I can assure you, I do carefully analyze, profile and take notes on the response patterns, and incorporate that knowledge into helping others who suffer from a less severe from of the same issue. It is a form of social study, and I don't do it because I want to or like to, but because it needs to be done. It is not the only place I probe either, I do general population and niche specific studies in order to draw out the difference and extrapolate meaningful results.
Is it OK to do so? Definitely not, at least from the perspective of someone who suffers the discord this brings to his mundane mediocrity. But then again, mundane mediocrity is not something good that needs to be cherished and protected, so I'd say that in this case, the end justifies the means.
I can assure you, I would never do something like that in a place that actually discussed technology and product development in a productive, educated and educational manner, because unlike doing it here, there it would be disruptive. But this place is not it, it is a joke, a remnant from a site that was cool a long time ago, mostly due to the lack of competition, which now lives on its corporate connections and a halo of self-awarded trustworthiness (seriously, how trustworthy one claiming to be the most trusted could be?), which sold out to a shameless advertiser and has become a beacon of consumerism, a tool of pimping the big US corporate boys like apple, nvidia, m$ and intel, a source for occasional paid accolades for certain barely incremental yet shamelessly overpriced product, and gathering place of clueless wannabes who cheer at every article, even on technology that is there purely to exploit them or is likely to render them unemployed.
i know u know what u know but dont expect them to know what you kbow and what they dont know. i think they could know if they wanted to know. this way of telling truth doesn't work. u r brave, man but these reactions decreases ur energy. God bless u
First off, South Korea is prosperous. High quality of life, highest life expectancies, highest IQ. As for cosmetic surgeries, on a per capita basis South Korea is #1 but if you look at the state of California for example, it's rate of plastic surgery on a per capita basis would be higher than South Korea. You have states like New Mexico, Montana, Wyoming, the Dakota's that drag the number down.
This is easily the most insane comment I have read in a long time.
"But NK owes its misery entirely to the US, without which today it would likely be just as prosperous as SK"
This is simply not true. North Korea's misery is entirely SELF-IMPOSED due to its insane degree of isolation from the outside world. North Korea is the one responsible for keeping tensions high with the US. There is no reason North Korea couldn't be as prosperous as the South. North Korea's poverty is caused solely by its intense degree of self-imposed isolation and economic mismanagement. How do you explain the fact that North Koreans can't even leave the country without permission? That North Koreans who do flee to China and are returned are punished?
It was the US that divided Korea initially, and kept it divided when Koreans found their "natural balance" by intervening in a war that was pretty much over, prolonging it further and severely increasing the death and destruction it inflicted, it was the US that isolated NK from the western world, and it was the US that persuaded the Soviet Union and China to cut their support, which was enough for NK to do as well or even better than SK. It was the US that put NK under a perpetual existential threat, forcing it to allocate a HUGE amount of its already limited resources for defense, which resulted in poverty, famine and an escalation of the draconian measures which the NK regime had to implement to suppress insurgencies. It is also why NK is building nuclear weapons, with their military machine being rather small and severely outdated, their only insurance policy is highly destructive nuclear weapons, which are perfectly doable without the kind of cutting edge technology modern military machines employ. So no, it is absolutely not self-imposed.
It sucks in NK, that's for sure, and the Kims have certainly played their part in that, but it wasn't them who wrote the script, it wasn't them who pushed things to come to this. The US is well aware that further sanctions will not deter the NK regime from its agenda, and will only lead to more suffering for the NK people, yet still keep on imposing them. The Kims do what they need to do and the only thing they can do, unlike the US, which doesn't really need to do it, yet chose to.
Instead of the biannual NK invasion simulation, fear mongering and military buildup, the US could leave NK be, lift sanctions for things that regular people need, help out with food and agricultural equipment. Kim doesn't want his people to suffer, that is a direct product of the position the US has put NK into and giving it no other choice than to surrender, which it will not. I assure you, the moment Kim feels safe, he will drop the belligerent rhetoric and divert resources from defense to standard of living. Alas, the US can only solve problems by bombing them to the ground. And we've all see how well it works out, judging by success story Iraq...
In short, NK neither wants its people to suffer, nor to be isolated from the world. They are simply being pushed into that position.
ddriver is an expert in everything. You'll see. He's the best engineer (ok, he makes some seriously bad typos that make him look like he's a faker but lets look beyond that), historian, sociologist, political analyst, everything I tell you. He know more that he should.
The only thing is that you just have to take his word for it. His only weakness is supporting what he says. o_O
Stockholm syndrome for nerds is a real thing. Watching people be happy about "innovation" when the entire system is set up for the benefit of a few, and not the masses, shows us time and time again capitalism has you people confused.
If you want to talk about market competition, let's do ourselves a favor and at least be honest... It's fun having technology trickled out to us as it profits the correct people, instead of saying what it should be: It's incredible what this world would provide if innovation was the core of our system, and no profitability.
And btw I work in this industry... making decisions that affect you all, in rooms of people you all idolize. You have no idea idea how much real engineering is stifled.
That's how capitalism works. It won't change unless a new system replaces it, and we haven't found one yet. Even china adopted it for business.
I'm not saying it's good and am not happy that technologies take many years to reach all people, but it's what we have and there is no reason to not be happy about a new piece of tech (being overly enthusiastic and worshiping the companies that came up with the tech is extremely unhealthy though).
aka I don't know what I'm talking about because capitalism replaced numerous systems that worked but if I keep self perpetuating that it's the only thing that works, and erase all of history before it, I can pigeon hole all of existence to how it ended up, and not how it affects the world.
Capitalism erases systems that work, stop believing we haven't "found" other ways. You just haven't found them... I assure you, they exist, and have existed for longer than you even know.
You can get free labor elsewhere. You just provided a viewpoint with 0 evidence to back it up, by erasing a plethora of evidence to the contrary. It's not my job to backup your claim that capitalism is the only method found, to this date, that works. You made the claim, I didn't. Don't insult me by calling my retort an insult, simply because you have no ability to take criticism.
In current destruction, or in extinction due to the expansiveness of imperialist capitalism?... Just because you don't leave your country (culturally) doesn't mean we don't exist. You even have your own personal genocide within your heartland that you ignore. The people most Native to your land face systemic oppression largely because your agricultural system is unsustainable without it. But don't worry, automation will come soon and offer yet another version of this nonsense.
@ittlebitstrouds what's that system that works and was killed of by capitalism? Trust me, far from me to say that unregulated capitalism is the best for everybody but still, I'm curious.
There have been very few systems that worked, and the ones that did got replaced because they could not compete. In the real world, just because something is better doesn't mean it will win. There's a reason many people in power are sociopaths, because it works. I don't like it, but I can't wish it away.
ddriver probably thinks hardware full disk encryption is backdoored with a master key like the we had with the Kingston thumb drive fiasco a few years back and covered by Bruce Schneier and others
Silly ddriver, we don't need to worry about conspiracies here
We can use super strong and unbreakable full disk encryption like Bitlocker when the hardware is backdoored
It is a bit odd though that the most popular desktop OS (Windows) has never been involved in a single criminal case involving Bitlocker
I would think that a Super Secure encryption backage would be a problem for the FBI
Just Google> FBI case with bitlocker full disk encryption
or any related term
How many cases did "YOU" find Reflex?
All I can find in a Search is how Bitlocker can be bypassed
Keep us updated AnandTech! Sounds like a HUGE Tech Story here
And exactly how secure IS Backdoored Bitlocker Encryption?
Well,the Secret Service says....
Secret Service-issued laptops contain multiple layers of security including full disk encryption and are "NOT PERMITTED" to contain classified information
My Samsung 850 EVO will do more than 3.2 gigabits per second sequential transfers. It's not exactly an impressive number for a super expensive enterprise drive.
The marketing info states "Seq R/W up to 3.200Gbps" I'm quite sure the period is just a typo and was intended to be a thousands separator. I.e 3,200 Gbps.
It will be interesting to see what samsung Z SSD can achive on QD1 copared head to head with Optane. And what it means in normal use case scenarios for consumers. Yes, I'm very interested in enterprise workloads too, but here we allready have quite impressive solutions imo. The consumer side with low QD has a bigger potential for improvement I believe. Take pricing in to the equation, and this will be exciting.
Well put. It doesn't seem any current nand implementations are getting much better at this. I think Optane and similar techs are what we are going to need to improve with most important of metrics.
True. But as we have seen with the 5775c the consumer would profit more probaly for less money with a L4 cache edram. I mean the 5775c especially in games punches way above it's league given it's low clockspeed and TDP. I'm still a little sad i did not buy it.
Optane will ship as what? 16 and 32 gb caches. That won't really help all that much expect if you have a laptop with a hdd.
Why is 3.2GB/s hyped as anything close to RAM? It's still 10 to 20 times slower... and that's provided they didn't typo the B from lowercase to uppercase.
You are too focused on bandwidth. Even SDRAM can't be beaten by latest NVMe SSDs in latency. Measured latency on consumer platforms are at lower than 60ns. SSDS best cause is 20us, and average is at 100-200us. RAM is 60-600x faster.
I don't see your point. In terms of latency, the gap between this drive and RAM is even larger than in terms of bandwidth. So my question stands even more. Why the hype? Why call this "intersection between DRAM and SSDs"?
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romrunning - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
While I'm not sure why Optane SSDs haven't been released yet, the delay makes it seem quite possible that Samsung may release their Z-SSDs first. Always nice to see competition between currently the best SSD designers (junky Intel 600p notwithstanding)!ddriver - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
Optane appears to be mostly hype, for we've heard so much about its superior density and now we hear it comes to consumers in the form of piny capacity "cache".Quite frankly, nand flash is good enough, all it needs is better caching, more cache and more intelligent controllers. That alone can do miracles in terms of performance, the rest is just parallelism, which increases the rate cache can be filled from or flushed to.
Currently SSDs tend to do slower because they do controller level parallelism, so the low flash die count reflects negatively on the maximum throughput rates. But nand flash can be made incorporating die level parallelism, where one splits capacity to offer multiple channels per die, making it possible to achieve tens of gigabytes per second without the need of numerous dies, only bigger and more powerful controllers.
Multi channel nand flash dies + more ram cache + better controllers + a trivial LiPo battery to facilitate larger cache flushing can produce ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE faster SSDs without the need of ANY new and as usual overpriced technology.
close - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
If they give you everything today what will they give you tomorrow? Look at Intel, trickling improvements down the products line 1MHz at a time :).garbagedisposal - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Another disabled/psychotic with nothing better to do than comment on technology news. What a sad way to live life.MrSpadge - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
While I often disagree with ddriver complaining about something, and especially the way he's saying it, you trying to insult him with being disabled is definitely worse. At least he sometimes has objectively valid points.fanofanand - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
Not to mention in this case he isn't wrong.Samus - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
dd, always good for s hoot.Cellar Door - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
Its really great to have Samsung in the market - in the last 6+ years, they are the only company pushing the envelope. Intel goes and tries to squeeze and milk the market then BAM - 840 PRO, 850 PRO, 960 PRO.And to be fair at much lower premiums then what Intel charged when x-25 was around and would be charging end customers if they could.
ddriver - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
"Its really great to have Samsung in the market" - and its CEO is currently in court, the company lost a good 5+ billion on the note fiasco and is about to be dismembered into tiny pieces.That's what happens when a puppet begins to outshine its master. It gets knocked down couple of notches. And by puppet and master I mean the fact that S. Korea is a US puppet state.
Reflex - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
Congratulations! You took the award for the most bizarre comment of the day!ddriver - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
Merely pointing out that "pushing the envelope" doesn't come without consequences. Samsung has become too successful for its own good, making a number of big and important us corporations look bad and taking away from their profits.Their product value has already decreased the last year, and in the years to come they will also dial down on the technological leadership they have exhibited for a few years now.
Reflex - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
Adjust your tin foil.ddriver - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Pfff... pitiful tin foil... amateurs. I am miles ahead, grounded the sheet metal clad rockwool panels of my home, forming a functional Faraday cage that blocks off the entire EM spectrum save for gamma rays. I mostly did it for radio silence in my electronics lab, but turned out to have myriad applications.U have something better than "tin foil", "conspiracy theory" and "shape-shifting reptilians"? No? Didn't think so ;) Not exactly creative and knowledgeable the kind of people who throw such cliches around.
Murloc - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.You're the one looking like a fool here.
close - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
ddriver, none of the scandals Samsung is involved in have anything to do with SSDs. It's business and politics, it's rushing tech out in the phone segment, not SSD tech.MamiyaOtaru - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
come on Samsung is so much bigger than Intel and has been for a long time. 2014 revenue: $305 billion vs Intel's $59.38 billion in 2016. You might want to look up "chaebol" and realize Samsung is the largest. "Begins to outshine its master" happened a long time agoDrumsticks - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
If memory serves, given that Samsung is involved with everything from smartphones to washing machines to boats, I don't think it is surprising that their revenue is that large. Imagine the profit comparison doesn't paint the 6x difference you want.ddriver - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
How large samsung is generally is not an issue, as long as that doesn't step into US companies which have "national interests" priority, because it doesn't take away money from them, nor does it force them to innovate, improve value or drop prices.When the EU fined apple for tax dodging, several high ranking US officials called that "attack on US national interests". A few weeks later the note 7 starts exploding, and everyone rushes to buy the new mediocre iphone for lack of a flagship that doesn't go boom. Apple took in most of the money that would have gone to samsung, while the latter lost 5+ billion in the recall.
I am sure that was "pure luck", or the almighty showing his love for apple, it could not possibly be an act of deliberate industrial sabotage, right?
Samus - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
Careful driver, or close is going to tap your wires.Reflex - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
True, I mean it can't possibly be a bad batch of batteries or a messed up battery chemistry. I mean, who ever heard of exploding LiON batteries? Totally unheard of in this industry. Obviously it must be a conspiracy. It's not like anyone else has ever had an exploding battery fiasco across an entire product launch. Except the one that hit Apple a few years back in their laptops. And the one that hit Dell. And the entire line of Sony batteries that time bombed across several OEMs. And the HP one. Other than that, it's basically unheard of, so industrial espionage is obviously the most likely explanation!eddman - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
This is anandtech, not infowars.fanofanand - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
Infowars is at least right half the time, bad example to give.Reflex - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
Um, say what?aryonoco - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
It's so sad when a commenter whom I generally respect on technical matters turns out to be so misinformed about the word.South Korea is an amazing success story, both for the people of Korea, as well as the United States and its allies who spent so much blood, sweat and tears to defend it.
South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, these are Asia's success stories of the 20th century. Successes that illustrate that the post war world order was good for everyone, unlike what the populists want you to believe today.
aryonoco - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Word = World.Maybe one day AT would ley e edit my comments. Maybe.
ddriver - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
On the contrary, I am more informed than I am supposed to be. And what is sad is your one sided, media fabricated world view.After the Korean war, up until the late 70s N. Korea did really well, its standard of living was on par with that of S. Korea, and it even surpassed it economically. It wasn't until the US convinced Russia(Soviet Union back then) and China to cut their support for NK in exchange for "warming relations" that the US imposed isolation began to take effect. And with a constant threat to their security (the US trains "lets invade NK" twice every year just a few miles from its borders), the NKs have been forced to allocate a tremendous amount of resources to their defense, in pretty much complete isolation. And makes their aspirations for nuclear weapon completely understandable.
SK doesn't owe its prosperity to being a US puppet state, it did that on its own. But NK owes its misery entirely to the US, without which today it would likely be just as prosperous as SK, even if under a more totalitarian regime (the SK wasn't exactly democratic most of the time, and now that they got a democratic president, she is impeached).
Tears... that's rich. The US only cares about SK for the strategic military importance to utilize against Russia and China. Unlike the Korean war, today the US has the military capacity to vaporize 98% of the NK military complex in a matter of hours. And even if China and Russia mind it, they wouldn't be able to do much other than to condemn it on a UNSC meeting. But why would the US bother? NK doesn't have strategic resources, and the US already has all the military bases they need in the region from occupied SK and Japan. The US doesn't really care about the suffering of the SK people either, if it did, it would not have inflicted those in the first place. What the US needs is the "evil rogue NK regime" to put on the media in attempts to convince the world there is a regime more evil and dangerous than their own.
As for Taiwan - when the Chinese communists rebelled and literally annihilated the ROC, its elite ran to Taiwan with pretty much all of the nation's wealth, where they were saved by the US navy. Which made the upcoming decades very difficult for China, and it also makes their success understandable, if is quite easy to "make it" on a small island with the entire wealth of mainland China in your hands. Alas in just a few years the mighty Taiwanese semiconductor industry will be totally eclipsed by the Chinese, despite being under an oppressive totalitarian communist regime. Most of the big tech corporations of Taiwan have moved to mainland China just to stay competitive. Unlike upstart Taiwan, China did actually manage to craw out of the gutter, by being everyone's cheap errant boy, to become a world power that will in all likelihood dethrone the US led western hegemony in less than 2 decades, without sinking in debt and without being anyone's bitch - now here is your SUCCESS STORY.
Japan, much like Korea, was been industrious long before WW2, and owe nothing of its success today to anyone but its own people.
Finally, speaking about the people of SK, I don't think they qualify for a success story. Their industry yes, but their people - far from it. Its population is declining, it ranks at the top in suicide rates, especially in young people, and is the absolute record holder at cosmetic surgery, because Korean people are ashamed to look Korean and spend mad money to look like Europeans. This is not a healthy population. Japan ain't that much healthier demographically either. In Japan and SK they now sell more adult diapers than baby diapers. Projections are those people will vanish in a century and a half, provided of course our civilization makes it that long.
Another gem on the subject you most likely are ignorant of is that during the Korean war, the majority of war crimes, massacres, prosecutions and such were committed not by the "evil NK" but by the SK forces, with the Bodo League massacre and the National Defense Corps Incident alone have resulted in over 200 000 deaths.
And before any of them armchair intellectual easily dismiss the content of this post as the obligatory "conspiracy theory" - everything contained herein can be easily verified by googling and reading mainstream articles about it, including on pro-western-biased wikipedia.
Retycint - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
So the point of all this is...ddriver - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Free education and hoRyzen broadening I am obligated to offer at the sight of my fellow humans wallowing in ignorance.Damn it, now "Ryzen" is totally ruined for me. My first reaction was "risen" as in "amd from the dead", but they said it is about horizon. Now that I spelled it hoRyzen it rings like a "ho risen"...
aryonoco - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Glad to see you took the bait.Now, may I suggest instead of debating random commenters on a technical website about the Korean war, you apply your time and try and get into a community college? I think their standards have fallen so much, you might have a shot at getting g in this time.
Or if you're not in the US, your local vocational training institute.
ddriver - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
I see now, it wasn't you being ignorant and uneducated, it was you baiting me. You clever fox you :DAnd let me guess, if I didn't call on your ignorance, I would be "sitting quietly in the corner, shamed" because "you showed me", right?
Now that's the kind of "can't lose, broken penny worth, desperate to appear smart" technique every clueless wannabe takes when he's got nothing of actual substance and value. You know, I actually have psychology papers written on people like you ;)
Sending me off to community college, now that's classy? Is that where you went to become a barber who comments at a tech site to feel intelligent? I wouldn't bother even with Harvard, Stanford or MIT, because digest their 5 year curriculum in 5 months casually. Total waste of time for people who can't learn unless they pay a ton of money to have someone drag them through the learning process.
Imagine me taking offense from someone who is here just to clap his hands at every article and be like "me gets tech, me so smart". That would be the day LOL
Lord-Bryan - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
What do all of this got to do with z-nandlilmoe - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
something to do with lost technology from the korean war that was recent rediscovered by samsung and implemented in their new z-nand product line.GT69 - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Lord-Bryan - Go for the jugular, my man. :-) As I stated earlier, just what do all these silly diatribes have to do with z-nand? If I had an interest in this type of silly crap, I'd read People magazine or watch CNN. Come on folks, I thought we were supposed to be sharing ideas about new products - not our anal, self-serving opinions on unrelated subjects.ddriver - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
Nope, what you are supposed to do is clap your hands in attempts to look smart. I however did share an idea for a product, it was my first comment in this article.If you think you could see or hear any of what I said in people magazine or on cnn, then you are completely detached from reality :)
bloodinmyveins - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
@ddriverNice one ;) don't rape Anandtech readers :DDDDD
close - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Yes @bloodinmyveins, he should go easy on AT readers. We don't want him to have more opportunities to show his skills ;).http://imgur.com/a/kW0V6
*Stories about how he knows more than anyone else around here - Check
*Proof that he knows more than anyone else around here - Missing
*Basic knowledge of common concepts used especially in his (purported) field - Missing
You could be a great story teller ddriver. Well... typing them, at least. :)
close - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
ddriver, whenever you go on a rant and try to pretend you're somehow privy to some information that nobody else has (more than you're supposed to be even o_O) or what highly specialized multiphysics simulations you do in your free time I will remind you that you are a person who doesn't know the difference between a millisecond and a microsecond.Yes, the last time you tried to support a claim you just proved you're the person who thinks ms stands for microsecond. This puts in perspective your "engineering" knowledge. Coupled with the fact that you have a Cyrillic (or related) keyboard layout I will go ahead and confidently say your opinions aren't "more informed", they are at the very least equally biased by facts in the media and personal preference.
And while a dose of bias is normal/expected, insisting that you're above everyone else and that your opinions are fact while failing to provide anything to support other than the glaring holes highlighted earlier places plenty of your comments somewhere between ridiculous and pathetic.
I understand your hesitation to present facts to support your statements since they mostly tend to discredit you but this is a tech site not a blog. And the comment section shouldn't be used to editorialize.
ddriver - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
It's a typo silly. I deal with milliseconds numerous times a day, but rather rarely with microseconds, in fact about 100 times less frequently than nanoseconds. It is now in the muscle memory of my fingers. And since I don't have the habit of looking neither at the display nor in my fingers, I often make such typos. And since there is no edit functionality here, there is no way to edit that.Nice of you to take screenshots and so on, seeing you have finally found a purpose in life, but building a case on that? Come on, you'd be better off to revert back to 5 inch HDDs ;)
Finally, there is absolutely no need to prove anything, my competence and far-out-of-the-box way of thinking are eloquent enough already. I certainly don't need to "out-prove" anyone, as none of my "opponents" have proven anything, or even displayed tangible signs of remote competence. And last but not least, I do enjoy and value my privacy, and the last thing I want is to have to deal with disillusioned wannabe online troll stalkers going after me, my family or my enterprises. You are free to have your doubts, if it helps you sleep at night ;)
eddman - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
Such an inflated ego.You accuse others of not proving anything yet you, yourself, did not offer ANY proof to back up your claim up there that the note7 situation was sabotage.
close - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
@ddriver, of course it's a typo.Seriously though, next time you accuse others of not providing proof maybe you should bother following your own advice. Unless it's to shitty to follow yourself. I mean you write boatloads of stuff, you're all over the place, saying everything you can imagine but not once are you supporting it in any meaningful way.
Simply saying that you know maybe more than you should without evidence makes you sound like a teenager bragging with his many sexual conquests without saying they were measured in gigabytes.
GT69 - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
ddriver - I'll grant that you may have several valid points in your lengthy post and as a retired EE who at age 69 had 40+ years in the industry, I certainly would not wish to enter a discussion about the validity of your comments. But, now help me here, isn't this supposed to be a technical/development discussion about products and not about our conception of history and/or world affairs? Just wondering...ddriver - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
"But, now help me here, isn't this supposed to be a technical/development discussion about products and not about our conception of history and/or world affairs"Sure thing old timer.
It is not about either. It is about "wow, new tec, so cool, me want (even if me doesn't need or can't afford or even make use of). It is not really about the technology, it is about technology related, often blind, irrational and technologically ignorant consumerism and believing that showing interest makes you look smart. It is quite often that you see either implied or even direct statements boiling down to a rather paradoxical "AT readers are smart, because they are AT readers, and they are AT readers, because they are smart".
And it wasn't me who picked it up really, with the "South Korean success story". All I did was point out that samsung is currently being put in its place after stepping on the toes of some "important" US corporations. But once faced with the blatant ignorance of that fellow human, how could I possibly leave that unaddressed? Granted, I am well aware that in all probability it will not really help him out, but I can assure you, I do carefully analyze, profile and take notes on the response patterns, and incorporate that knowledge into helping others who suffer from a less severe from of the same issue. It is a form of social study, and I don't do it because I want to or like to, but because it needs to be done. It is not the only place I probe either, I do general population and niche specific studies in order to draw out the difference and extrapolate meaningful results.
Is it OK to do so? Definitely not, at least from the perspective of someone who suffers the discord this brings to his mundane mediocrity. But then again, mundane mediocrity is not something good that needs to be cherished and protected, so I'd say that in this case, the end justifies the means.
I can assure you, I would never do something like that in a place that actually discussed technology and product development in a productive, educated and educational manner, because unlike doing it here, there it would be disruptive. But this place is not it, it is a joke, a remnant from a site that was cool a long time ago, mostly due to the lack of competition, which now lives on its corporate connections and a halo of self-awarded trustworthiness (seriously, how trustworthy one claiming to be the most trusted could be?), which sold out to a shameless advertiser and has become a beacon of consumerism, a tool of pimping the big US corporate boys like apple, nvidia, m$ and intel, a source for occasional paid accolades for certain barely incremental yet shamelessly overpriced product, and gathering place of clueless wannabes who cheer at every article, even on technology that is there purely to exploit them or is likely to render them unemployed.
sedra - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
i know u know what u know but dont expect them to know what you kbow and what they dont know. i think they could know if they wanted to know.this way of telling truth doesn't work. u r brave, man but these reactions decreases ur energy. God bless u
Yongsta - Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - link
First off, South Korea is prosperous. High quality of life, highest life expectancies, highest IQ. As for cosmetic surgeries, on a per capita basis South Korea is #1 but if you look at the state of California for example, it's rate of plastic surgery on a per capita basis would be higher than South Korea. You have states like New Mexico, Montana, Wyoming, the Dakota's that drag the number down.VeryLogical - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
This is easily the most insane comment I have read in a long time."But NK owes its misery entirely to the US, without which today it would likely be just as prosperous as SK"
This is simply not true. North Korea's misery is entirely SELF-IMPOSED due to its insane degree of isolation from the outside world. North Korea is the one responsible for keeping tensions high with the US. There is no reason North Korea couldn't be as prosperous as the South. North Korea's poverty is caused solely by its intense degree of self-imposed isolation and economic mismanagement. How do you explain the fact that North Koreans can't even leave the country without permission? That North Koreans who do flee to China and are returned are punished?
ddriver - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
It was the US that divided Korea initially, and kept it divided when Koreans found their "natural balance" by intervening in a war that was pretty much over, prolonging it further and severely increasing the death and destruction it inflicted, it was the US that isolated NK from the western world, and it was the US that persuaded the Soviet Union and China to cut their support, which was enough for NK to do as well or even better than SK. It was the US that put NK under a perpetual existential threat, forcing it to allocate a HUGE amount of its already limited resources for defense, which resulted in poverty, famine and an escalation of the draconian measures which the NK regime had to implement to suppress insurgencies. It is also why NK is building nuclear weapons, with their military machine being rather small and severely outdated, their only insurance policy is highly destructive nuclear weapons, which are perfectly doable without the kind of cutting edge technology modern military machines employ. So no, it is absolutely not self-imposed.It sucks in NK, that's for sure, and the Kims have certainly played their part in that, but it wasn't them who wrote the script, it wasn't them who pushed things to come to this. The US is well aware that further sanctions will not deter the NK regime from its agenda, and will only lead to more suffering for the NK people, yet still keep on imposing them. The Kims do what they need to do and the only thing they can do, unlike the US, which doesn't really need to do it, yet chose to.
Instead of the biannual NK invasion simulation, fear mongering and military buildup, the US could leave NK be, lift sanctions for things that regular people need, help out with food and agricultural equipment. Kim doesn't want his people to suffer, that is a direct product of the position the US has put NK into and giving it no other choice than to surrender, which it will not. I assure you, the moment Kim feels safe, he will drop the belligerent rhetoric and divert resources from defense to standard of living. Alas, the US can only solve problems by bombing them to the ground. And we've all see how well it works out, judging by success story Iraq...
In short, NK neither wants its people to suffer, nor to be isolated from the world. They are simply being pushed into that position.
eddman - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
Just remove yourself to infowars.Reflex - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!close - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
ddriver is an expert in everything. You'll see. He's the best engineer (ok, he makes some seriously bad typos that make him look like he's a faker but lets look beyond that), historian, sociologist, political analyst, everything I tell you. He know more that he should.The only thing is that you just have to take his word for it. His only weakness is supporting what he says. o_O
Reflex - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
Honestly his technical explanations are no better than what you can figure out reading some Wikipedia.Reflex - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
So many Vietnamese friends of mine lament the loss of the south, looking at South Korea and Japan and seeing what could have been.littlebitstrouds - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Stockholm syndrome for nerds is a real thing. Watching people be happy about "innovation" when the entire system is set up for the benefit of a few, and not the masses, shows us time and time again capitalism has you people confused.If you want to talk about market competition, let's do ourselves a favor and at least be honest... It's fun having technology trickled out to us as it profits the correct people, instead of saying what it should be: It's incredible what this world would provide if innovation was the core of our system, and no profitability.
And btw I work in this industry... making decisions that affect you all, in rooms of people you all idolize. You have no idea idea how much real engineering is stifled.
eddman - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
That's how capitalism works. It won't change unless a new system replaces it, and we haven't found one yet. Even china adopted it for business.I'm not saying it's good and am not happy that technologies take many years to reach all people, but it's what we have and there is no reason to not be happy about a new piece of tech (being overly enthusiastic and worshiping the companies that came up with the tech is extremely unhealthy though).
littlebitstrouds - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
"We haven't found one yet"aka I don't know what I'm talking about because capitalism replaced numerous systems that worked but if I keep self perpetuating that it's the only thing that works, and erase all of history before it, I can pigeon hole all of existence to how it ended up, and not how it affects the world.
Capitalism erases systems that work, stop believing we haven't "found" other ways. You just haven't found them... I assure you, they exist, and have existed for longer than you even know.
eddman - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Personal insults are not welcome.Instead of attacking me bring some examples so that I know it too.
littlebitstrouds - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
You can get free labor elsewhere. You just provided a viewpoint with 0 evidence to back it up, by erasing a plethora of evidence to the contrary. It's not my job to backup your claim that capitalism is the only method found, to this date, that works. You made the claim, I didn't. Don't insult me by calling my retort an insult, simply because you have no ability to take criticism.eddman - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Huh?! Are you ok? /rhMamiyaOtaru - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
if they got replaced how good were they exactlylittlebitstrouds - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
In current destruction, or in extinction due to the expansiveness of imperialist capitalism?... Just because you don't leave your country (culturally) doesn't mean we don't exist. You even have your own personal genocide within your heartland that you ignore. The people most Native to your land face systemic oppression largely because your agricultural system is unsustainable without it. But don't worry, automation will come soon and offer yet another version of this nonsense.eddman - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
You need help.close - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
@ittlebitstrouds what's that system that works and was killed of by capitalism? Trust me, far from me to say that unregulated capitalism is the best for everybody but still, I'm curious.bcronce - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
There have been very few systems that worked, and the ones that did got replaced because they could not compete. In the real world, just because something is better doesn't mean it will win. There's a reason many people in power are sociopaths, because it works. I don't like it, but I can't wish it away.Bullwinkle J Moose - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
ddriver probably thinks hardware full disk encryption is backdoored with a master key like the we had with the Kingston thumb drive fiasco a few years back and covered by Bruce Schneier and othersSilly ddriver, we don't need to worry about conspiracies here
We can use super strong and unbreakable full disk encryption like Bitlocker when the hardware is backdoored
It is a bit odd though that the most popular desktop OS (Windows) has never been involved in a single criminal case involving Bitlocker
I would think that a Super Secure encryption backage would be a problem for the FBI
Just Google>
FBI case with bitlocker full disk encryption
or any related term
How many cases did "YOU" find Reflex?
All I can find in a Search is how Bitlocker can be bypassed
Keep us updated AnandTech!
Sounds like a HUGE Tech Story here
halcyon - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
ddriver, shhh....Bullwinkle J Moose - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
And exactly how secure IS Backdoored Bitlocker Encryption?Well,the Secret Service says....
Secret Service-issued laptops contain multiple layers of security including full disk encryption and are "NOT PERMITTED" to contain classified information
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/18/friday_sec...
So you now heard it directly from those who service your secrets!
...and what would the NSA say...(if they could or would)
Bitlocker is for "YOUR" secrets, not ours
Why do you think it's codeword is "Instant Access" ?
surt - Sunday, March 19, 2017 - link
Samsung gross revenue: US$ 305 billion (2014)Intel gross revenue: US$59.38 billion (2016)
Yeah, Samsung got too uppity and Intel put them down. ;-)
Krysto - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
> Sequential R/W will be up to 3.2 GBps, with Random R/W up to 750K/160K IOPS> Latency (presumably read latency) will be 70% lower than current NVMe drives
And it will probably still be cheaper than 3D Xpoint. 3D Xpoint is ded.
JKJK - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
3.2 GigaBIT sequential transfer speeds? I hope that is a typo.waltsmith - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
This.Guspaz - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
My Samsung 850 EVO will do more than 3.2 gigabits per second sequential transfers. It's not exactly an impressive number for a super expensive enterprise drive.fpsvash - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
The marketing info states "Seq R/W up to 3.200Gbps" I'm quite sure the period is just a typo and was intended to be a thousands separator. I.e 3,200 Gbps.cosmotic - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
That's cultural; some locales use periods instead of commas for thousands separators.PEJUman - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
^^^ThisAsia uses "." as thousands separator. I struggled with "," for a while when I got to the states initially.
Chaitanya - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
In many european countries they use . for thousands separator and , for decimal notation.Eric Klien - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDChDwz-Qrg it can do 3.2 GigaByte sequential transfer speeds which is about as fast as PCI 3.0 x 4 goes.JKJK - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
bitsBytes (capital B)
:P
I see it has been corrected now, makes more sense.
Bullwinkle J Moose - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
No thanks, I'll wait for the PCIe 4.0 X 16 cardSydneyBlue120d - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
Any info about lithography process? ThanksKrysto - Friday, March 17, 2017 - link
Unlikely Samsung will use EUV until 2020 (shipping products), if that's what you're asking.SydneyBlue120d - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
I was asking the production process node, if 28nm, 14nm or 10nm :)lilmoe - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Samsung's 3D NAND is 40nm. This might be similar.JKJK - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
It will be interesting to see what samsung Z SSD can achive on QD1 copared head to head with Optane. And what it means in normal use case scenarios for consumers.Yes, I'm very interested in enterprise workloads too, but here we allready have quite impressive solutions imo. The consumer side with low QD has a bigger potential for improvement I believe.
Take pricing in to the equation, and this will be exciting.
danielfranklin - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
Well put.It doesn't seem any current nand implementations are getting much better at this.
I think Optane and similar techs are what we are going to need to improve with most important of metrics.
beginner99 - Saturday, March 18, 2017 - link
True. But as we have seen with the 5775c the consumer would profit more probaly for less money with a L4 cache edram. I mean the 5775c especially in games punches way above it's league given it's low clockspeed and TDP. I'm still a little sad i did not buy it.Optane will ship as what? 16 and 32 gb caches. That won't really help all that much expect if you have a laptop with a hdd.
fanofanand - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
Article today (or yesterday) is on X-Point, first drive is 375 Gb and it's not overly impressive.IntelUser2000 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Actually for target workloads it's quite nice. Consistency is many dozens of times better and latency is a fraction of Datacenter SSDs.IntelUser2000 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
It's not up to Optane SSD levels. They claim 750K/160K read/write IOPs. It has a sequential throughput of 3.2GB/s.3.2GB/s equals 800K IOPs. The read is being saturated with random but writes arent. 160K is 640MB/s.
Optane SSD is at 550/500K with 2.4 and 2GB/s. Write random matches sequential throughput. That's because Optane media is capable of doing more.
Visual - Monday, March 20, 2017 - link
Why is 3.2GB/s hyped as anything close to RAM? It's still 10 to 20 times slower... and that's provided they didn't typo the B from lowercase to uppercase.IntelUser2000 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
You are too focused on bandwidth. Even SDRAM can't be beaten by latest NVMe SSDs in latency. Measured latency on consumer platforms are at lower than 60ns. SSDS best cause is 20us, and average is at 100-200us. RAM is 60-600x faster.IntelUser2000 - Saturday, March 25, 2017 - link
Actually I calculated wrong.300x-3000x faster.
Visual - Monday, March 27, 2017 - link
I don't see your point. In terms of latency, the gap between this drive and RAM is even larger than in terms of bandwidth. So my question stands even more. Why the hype? Why call this "intersection between DRAM and SSDs"?