With all the bugs of the Surface Pro 4 tablet and Surface Book, I wouldn't call either of them among the best. As for the Surface Studio, it is aimed at such a niche audience that it will probably be quite some time before we see any major issues pop up, but I won't be surprised when (not if) they do.
I have a Surface Pro 4 for work and it locks up at least once a day. Sometimes it doesn't recognize the type cover that I have. It took me a while to sort out the battery drain issue while it was sleeping. It frequently locks up while restarting. Literally the exact hardware that I want and the software just seems to be so buggy. It's a real shame.
That's a shame. I would've hoped it would behave more like the Surface Book given the same software and similarities in the hardware.
I haven't had any issues with my Surface Book thus far that weren't a result of my own software and configuration choices. No lockups at all to this date. Some quirky behavior with Edge early on that got fixed with updates (All Win10 devices?). Abnormal pauses were reproducible on a desktop Win10 system and I've adjusted my configuration to eliminate this issue on both. Games work well enough despite not getting the latest nVidia drivers. My uncle said he had some issues with his early on, but it didn't take them long to resolve them.
I'll have to keep in mind that the Surface Pro 4 experience isn't necessarily the same as the Surface Book experience.
In my experience, Surface Pro 3 is much more stable platform than Surface Pro 4.
Had a chance to use both, actually switch between SP3 and SP4 a few times. On paper, SP4 would be my choice - less heat, less fan activity, slightly bigger, better, higher res screen... a bit lighter, too.
However... I had chance to play with two SP4. One was repaired/refurbished, the other one brand new. Solid 5 months in-between, so they couldn't be same batch. Both SP4 exhibited touch-screen issues... at some point, every couple of days or so, screen would stop reacting to touch. Type cover would work. Reboot later, touch screen is back, no errors in event log to point to driver crashing or any other observable problem. This was kind of "fixed" at some point, where touch-screen would stop reacting, and then start reacting on its own, after a few seconds, as if Windows was restarting touch-screen tech/software automatically on detected problem, so no need to restart whole Surface... basically more of a workaround than real fix. Refurbished one also had problem with Halo - face recognition was a bit of hit-and-miss, even under good light. Seemed to be very sensitive to distance between camera and face, as if DoF was really shallow. The new one was much more reliable with Halo tech (software updates that were released in the meantime, or refurb had somehow flawed Halo hardware?). Both SP4 had a bit of an issue with my LinkSys ADSL modem/router which I also used as wireless AP. Arguably that part might have been down to ADSL device, but then again - two SP3 I have been using had none of these issues.
My SP3 does not detect the type cover quite often. Not really sure if it's physical damage or software issue though. I'm considering getting a cheap chinese cover which runs on bluetooth instead of the i2c interface. Even if the connector is damaged, the keyboard should still works (downside is I have to recharge the keyboard once in a while, and have to turn it on or off manually)
Other than that my SP3 runs pretty solid, although the GPU is pretty much underpowered.
The only problem I've had with my Surface Pro 4 is screen flicker when it's at low brightness. It's only a problem in a dark room when brightness is about 10%. But yeah I have heard about all the other issues people have seen with them.
We had a lot of problems with a whole batch of Surface 3's at a law office. Eventually Microsoft agreed to swap them all for Surface 4's. Problems from battery performance to two of them just outright dying.
On my Fourth Surface Book since buying one pre-order back in October 2015. I need to turn it in for a fifth one later this month. The device(s) have never worked to my satisfaction. The first three suffered from graphical glitches, crashes, wakeup oddities, and strange glitches. The one I'm on now will randomly have the keyboard/mouse stop functioning after waking up, inability to wake up, and the hinge is "loose" so that the Surface Book frequently thinks it is detached/reattached. So tired of dealing with this thing.
The second one 3 months in? After Microsoft kept promising driver/firmware updates to address the issues?
It's a business laptop that was going to be a test case for our company, selling it isn't our job. Microsoft extended the warranty, and we decided on XPS 15's instead for our fleet. (which work nearly flawlessly in comparison.)
It wasn't capable of reliable external display/peripheral use either, the dock sucked.
Not trying to troll, but that's like every MS computer since forever. I have an Asus computer that can't wake up either with Windows 8 or 10. Works fine with Linux, SuSE 42.1. Yea, linux isn't perfect but MS has had decades to get standby right, and can't.
Remember the last time an ios or android device failed to wake up when hitting the power button? Me either.
Sprokkets, that's a damned good point. How can waking from a sleep state continue to confuse Microsoft when as you rightly point out, phones do it multiple times a day flawlessly. It's maddening and you can't realistically sleep your PC during critical work without saving everything (and when you've multiple tabs, papers, word, Excel and PowerPoint documents open that's one big pain in the arse).
I don't know if EVERY MS computer is like this... Some are and some are not. We deployed hundreds of Surface Pro 1, 2 and 3s over the years at my company. Some were very good... many were not. The higher-ups though decided to pass on the Surface Pro 4 and started to purchase Lenovo laptops. It was a good call. Our IT support cases have dropped into single digits for the new Lenovos. MS had a PERFECT idea with the Surface. I LOVE the concept. But their execution (at least till the Surface Pro 3 as I have not used a SP4) was less than stellar. Too bad. Its hard to rebound from even a small bad batch.
I've been using linux for about 10 years now on all sorts of computers. Typically you will encounter issues in linux exactly with things like standby and sleep mode, even if everything else works out of the box. Don't even get me started on drivers for new hardware like dedicated graphics or application support. I've stayed with Windows pretty much 100% due to my Photoshop needs. Sure I game some on my desktop too, but these days even that wouldn't be enough.
I love linux, it's great for many things, especially for the price, but the area you brought up as an advantage somehow you're completely wrong about.
This new device from Microsoft is interesting. The price is ridiculous though. I'll wait for future generations and see how things go in the future. As an artist I'm definitely interested in these types of devices.
There are a lot of stuff that Microsoft hs fucked up over the years. For example.. if your monitors turn off (multiple monitors). Your color calibration information resets to default. Shutting down any monitor will now cause all the icons to switch to the remaining monitor and the color calibration will be lost as well. Microsoft support tech(from India and Turkey) only kept repeating the same BS recipe of "reboot, didnt work? then boot in safe mode" and then end with "Its working as intended, its not a bug. We will report this to the developers for xxx reason" and nothing..
MS support is good, but their hardware products' quality isn't.
My Surface 3's pen function is bad straight out of the box, so I have to send it in for repair the day I've got it. The Surface Pen 4 I've bought for the Surface have its bluetooth function working intermittently, most of the time the top button click doesn't work. Then I remembered I used to have a MS wireless laser mouse + keyboard combo which died 3 months after purchase. My XBox 360 RRoD'ed just a few weeks after warranty expired, nice calculation on the MTTF, Microsoft.
Seems like EVERY MS hardware product I owned have to turn bad at some time. Is it my bad luck or MS's QC needs some debugging?
Exactly... I dont want good support nearly as much as I want it to not break... Same reason I dont buy a Kia with a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty. I dont want it to break and be fixed for free, I want to not be stuck with a broken car I have to deal with regardless of who pays for it. This comment section alone is riddled with Surface Pro and Surface Book users reporting all sorts of issues. Pass. Big time pass.
Fascinating.... I had major problems with a Dell 7275 tablet before... all of which were solved after switching to the Surface Pro 4, which I would gladly recommend to everybody, expect maybe heavy duty users..... Also hooking the thing up to a beamer "just works" . The only problem I had turned out to be a connector to a monitor causing frequent tries to switch between 1 and 2 monitors which locked up my Surface.
We have a whole load of SP3 and SSP4 device, in work, so we're aware of the various aspects of the hardware and software. So far, other than a SP3 wireless card dropping from the machine, we've experienced little to no issues. A few black screens that were resolved with the power button+volume button but that's about it.
I always clean refresh and immediately update to the latest build etc.
so much better than 16:9 - which is horrible for everything except watching wide screen movies. Who does that on their computer anymore? and especially bad for word processing or for the web!
But that's just a run of the mill 27" 16:9 2560×1440 monitor, nothing special. The resolution, 192 DPI and aspect ratio of the Surface Studio are what make it special.
The Surface Display + a new Mac Pro = yes! I know it eliminates the point of touch, but I don't care much for it either way. I love the rest of the display design though.
Oh, it's great! they've moved to the new intel U series chips to give us a smoother, more complete experience, and a new geforce 940MX graphics card for CUDA acceleration! They start at the new price of $2400 for the bast model, and $3200 for the model with more then 4GB soldered to the mobo.
Actually many of the professional applications are just as demanding to GPU performance, even not even more, because besides graphics there is also compute.
All in all, this product is silly, good screen, decent design, but the specs are disappointing. A spinner drive in a 4200$ product, seriously?
Replace in the drive with a nvme, replace the gpu with a 1070, and at the same price point, I might consider buying it.
What's interesting is that creative professionals are already a niche market, but by offering midrange laptop performance, they're basically cutting out a large segment of that niche -- video editors with demanding workflows, motion graphics artists, digital compositors, and basically anyone working in 3D. The Studio seems to be aimed primarily at photo editors and graphic designers who spend all day in less demanding applications, but that's a niche of a niche, and lots of those other users I mentioned would love a high-resolution touch display with pen input.
Would be interesting if they competed directly with the Wacom Cintiq line, because that display is much better than what Wacom currently has on offer.
Very good summation. Plus the 3:2 aspect ratio isn't ideal for videographers. This seems to be for digital artists, photographers, desktop publishers and the like.
With those specs and prices I certainly don't see this thing flying off the shelf but it's a decent first attempt.
If you buy a 4 grand machine for creative work, running a game on the side is just a bonus. No one is buying this as a dedicated gaming machine, of course.
Except that for some reason it has a built in wireless adapter for the XBOX One controller. Can't even play some of the Play Anywhere games like Forza Horizon 3 or Gears of War at the best settings.
What are "best settings"? I am sure it can play Horizon 3 at 1080p like a XBox One or Battefield. It is an awesome little addition (the wireless controller built-in).
"Most people would use the pen with the same hand as they would use the mouse, and their non-dominant hand ends up not being utilized." This is not true if you are using photoshop. You have your left hand on the keyboard to quickly switch tools (i.e 'e' for erase, 'b' for brush, etc.)
"Even at first glance, the sleek, beautiful lines are readily apparent..."
That's got cheesy written all over it. I know that it's good to help build mental images in the reader's mind when writing descriptively, but you're reviewing computer hardware here and not writing a romance novel. Besides that, you have pictures clearly showing a rectangular screen attached to a little box with an angular base. What exactly is sleek about it? It's blocky, industrial, and machine manufactured and Microsoft's designers didn't appear to make any attempt to hide that fact.
If a hinge is breathtaking, what is the Grand Canyon? Mount Everest? Niagara Falls? I think maybe the hyperbole in everyday life has gone a bit too far.
- If a hinge is breathtaking, what is the Grand Canyon?
Well, Apple used to say that the AirPod are magical and the touch bar genius and revolutionary so yeah, in this kind of overhyped marketing, breathtaking is probably a conservative adjective :-)
Great that the display can be folded down. I agree on haveing a larger SSD. I would also like a model with just Intel 630 integrated graphics and NO discrete GPU. Since I'm not a gamer ; I would like that lower cost cooler running option.
Nice machine it seems like. People may balk at the price, but a 27 inch digitizer like a Wacom almost costs as much as this machine, and doesn't have a fairly high performance computer inside either.
That said, that's also why I wish there was a touchscreen-free version for less, I'm not artsy enough to need that, but a straight iMac competitor from Microsoft could be nice.
Probably wouldn't fit in here. The laptop TDPs aren't that much lower than the desktop TDPs in this generation as they're mostly the same chip with slightly lower clocks. The cooling design seems pretty elaborate as-is just for the 980M.
TDPs for the mobile pascal are finally out, and a mobile 1070 might fit the TDP constraints. the 980M is a 100W part, vs 80/110/150 for the mobile 1060/70/80 GPUs. It's 10W more on paper; but nVidia has been more flexible with power vs performance on mobile parts before. Worst case I'd assume that like the surface book, they'd just slap a different model number on a cut power/performance model.
I have to wonder a little where those TDP numbers came from because GeForce.com, the cited source, doesn't appear to have them listed anyplace I could find on a cursory search. If the numbers are accurate, then when I made an off the cuff estimate about the mobile 1080 TDP being not too far off the 180W of its desktop counterpart based on heat pipe counts extrapolated from a single pipe on a Dell Latitude D630 accounting for power draw from the dual PSUs of this laptop...
...then I was pretty darned close to reality. Anyway, if those are accurate, the TDP is HIGHLY disappointing. 75W for the 1050? What's wrong with people? A midrange GPU used to have a TDP of 20W back in the 8600M GT days and a low end 8400M GS was a mere 11W. Those GPUs were in much thicker, relatively less cramped laptops too so cooling them was easy. While it's nice to see Intel lowering TDP as technology improves, Nvidia (AMD too) continue to increase TDP despite node shrinks. It's a good time to exit computer gaming entirely and sit it out until GPUs hit the same TDP peak and then decline the CPU industry discovered years ago.
I am curious as well. the 1050 mobile pulling 75 watt would make no sense, as the 960m was only a 55 watt part, and the 1050ti is not only faster, but fits in the same power envelope. The 1050 is much more likely to be a 30 watt part.
"Since Maxwell" is not a very long history. Besides that "can run a gaming rig" isn't a very specific measurement. SLI? Low end GPU? High end GPU? CPU TDP? Number of hard drives? Other components in the system? Look a bit deeper. In addition to that, I've NEVER run a "gaming rig" off more than a 400W PSU. That doesn't mean much of anything though without me offering a long history of computer hardware configurations that can quantify power consumption. In addition to that, most people usually purchase more power supply than they really need because they're caught in marketing hype and overly conservative vendor recommendations. I've seen quite a few 1KW power supplies feeding a 95W processor and a single midrange graphics card for when 350W would be entirely sufficient.
You couldn't be more correct. I got swindled by the MOAR POWER hype on my first build, ended up with a 700W PSU to power a single HDD, a Q6600, and an 8800 GTS. I could have gotten by with 400 EASILY.
A Wacom Cintiq continues to work after you purchase upgraded computer hardware, so you aren't stuck with an outdated CPU and GPU.
Also, the Cintiq has double the pressure sensitivity, adds tilt sensitivity that the Surface lacks completely, and most troublesome, there is a distinct lag between moving the pen and seeing your input on the screen when compared to Wacom's professional solution.
That doesn't become worthless when you need to upgrade the computer's hardware.
If you're going to make something this expensive, yet disposable due to a lack of hardware upgradability, it needs to at least be on par with existing professional drawing tools. Wacom's pen is much more advanced, it's color management is much more advanced, and the Express Key Remote is much more advanced than the Surface Dial.
Also, I'm not sure where you get the notion that Wacom's products can not support multitouch.
How does this "double pressure" sensitivity translates in real world? Let's imagine that you have 1024 level of pressure, and that the max displacement of the screen would be 1mm when pressing fully, it means that 1 increment of level of pressure corresponds to less than 0,001mm or 1um. Does home people really believe it makes a difference and people can be as precise as that? Lol.
Tipoo, all Surfii are hybrids. I think MS will never allow you to plug into a Surface to use just the screen. It's about driving(forcefully) a way of computing consisting with MS vision. It's PC plus as opposed to post PC.
There is a 27 inch wacom digitizer? No one tells me anything. :( I been waiting for a pressure sensitive pen enabled tablet/aio at 27 inches or higher forever. The nearly 5k fidelity is nearly to much to resist. Breathtaking? Id take one of these first attempts at this form factor over a front row seat for the next Hailey's comet at the grand canyon with the playmate of the year giving me a lap dance. Even knowing that improved versions are most likely going to be released that address silly issues because I have been waiting forever for large. And for an old school traditional background artist who had the idea that going small, precious and timid was a sin where going large and drawing sweeping gesture friendly strokes on a large canvas using more than anemic carpal inducing wrist motion is an ingrained prejudice I have been suffering with no relief. I would have to believe then that I am the target market and anyone that doesn't find rabid excitement in the prospect of next years release simply because this AIO now exists... Simply is not the intended creative type in mind who has been waiting so long they r stupid enough to pay the ridiculous price and r grateful for the opportunity. Even the dial that slides down the screen.! Just the idea that future iterations might have the Jog Shuttle sexiness of an old GVG Grass Valley Group editing dial for dialing in sublime levels of interactive seeking has me literally frothing rabid with anticipation! ( Particularly if they allow future implementations to be as open and supported as their Dev friendly Kinect example! ) I find more exciting at the prospect of future versions simply because the device form factor with it's initial faults is finally here! ( please.. must go larger ) The last thing I want to hear is naysaying ( God forbid they decide to close shop on this line of product from as much negativity ) Silly I know... But from my point of view the machine is as precariously fragile as a newborn infant from the point of view of a newborn father who thought he was infertile and only wants to see that potential grow up and be... Realized!
The Surface Dial is not so much innovative as it is a direct copy of Adobe's "place a plastic object on the screen to give commands while drawing" Ink and Slide idea from several years ago.
Microsoft's Surface predates Adobe's Ink and Slide by several years. Detection and interaction with real world objects existed with Surface 1.0. https://youtu.be/6VfpVYYQzHs
I beleive the point was that the DIAL, just released with the Surface Studio was predated by the Ink and Slide thingy from Adobe and doesn't appear to be a unique or new idea.
Likewise, in the professional drawing space, Wacom's Cintiq has long come with the Express Key Remote, which is another take on the "place a plastic object on the screen to give commands while drawing" concept.
I was at a loss to see how so many reviewers claimed Microsoft was being "innovative" here.
The tech came from a company called perceptive pixel which MS bought out. It used to require some hefty GPU & CPU resources to work one of those tables. It still does in a sense, but nowhere near as it used to be. MS helped refine the tech quite a bit.
I really hope they do not stop dev of the dial idea. I'd love future iterations with inner and outer rings for more navigation possibilities. Hopefully supporting an open Development community like they did with Kinect. I have dreams Of GVG grass Valley Group shuttle seek sexiness that is portable as a puck and whose position onscreen can be programmed by me for the tools and pipelines I greedily need that is unique to my needs. I want! almost as much as I want them to go up to a 36 inch display! ( which would had been the smallest canvas I ever stretched to paint on. Crazy! I live in a world where smaller is always better. It is not )
The only big advantage I see is the hinge and pen driven touchscreen. This product reminds me of the flying car... Where your target market is limited to people that have a pilot licence and want to drive an ugly unsafe car. Surface Studio appeals most to the artist that does not care about value or performance.
Now, if Microsoft can figure out how to sell any of these things. They haven't broken 4 million in yearly sales for the Surface line of tablets yet. In fact, going by the sales numbers in dollars, they sold just about 3.7 million in the past 12 months. I really don't know why such a big deal is being made of these things.
Surface Book sales are very poor too. There's a lot of hype going on about these products, which seems to be wasted words.
It takes a couple years for the enterprise world to catch up. Lots of businesses still running Windows 7, lots of competition from HP and Dell hardware, especially in the tablet/convertible space. Extended Windows 7 support ends in 2020...
The enterprise has had plenty of time. Surface Pro products seem to mostly be used by IT. I've never seen one anywhere else. They are very expensive, particularly for a Windows product, as is this.
We have a few but they are limited to the execs due to cost vs normal laptops, they don't work with multiple monitors reliably which is great fun to support
My company employs over 260,000 people, and we just got WIN7 last year. We still have some users on XP. So "it takes a couple years for the enterprise world to catch up" is exactly right. Don't underestimate the need for compatibility with legacy applications in older, larger companies. Besides that, it isn't exactly a small undertaking to swap out the OS (or PCs for that matter) when you are literally dealing with hundreds of thousands of users. The enterprise world is VERY slow to adapt outside of Silicon Valley (or the tech sector in general).
The Surface Book's biggest problem is its awful hinge design that doesn't let you fully close the system like pretty much every other clamshell design ever. It leaves that awkward gap to keep the screen from making contact with the keyboard that Microsoft couldn't figure out how to recess deep enough to keep it off the screen were they to give it a more effective hinge. I can't imagine anyone would examine the thing and be impressed by those painfully obvious oversights.
Funny, the hinge is actually one of the things I like most about the SB. It means the keyboard isn't recessed and I don't have key markings on my screen every time I open it.
It's not because it's different that it's bad, you know?
Key blemishes on a screen are as much of an indication of poor design as the shortcut Microsoft took with the Surface Book's hinge. Either way, you're the victim of thoughtless engineering. Though the biggest problem with the Surface Book hinge isn't really the fact that it underscores the error with keyboard placement, but that it robs the entire system of structural strength when closed. Instead of the whole system accepting pressure and distributing it across the entire chassis, one half or another will be forced to endure those forces alone.
There's nothing wrong with finding the appearance appealing. It's simply that in either an attempt to create a visual difference or as compensation for poorly thought out system design, Microsoft selected the hinge to the detriment of its customers. It's not a big deal, really. The Surface Book is an inexpensive little system so there's not much lost if one is damaged. It just seems like thoughtlessness on the part of the company demonstrated in a very visual manner for sketchy justification.
Surface Book inexpensive? Oh, to have disposable income like that to consider a $2000 laptop inexpensive enough to consider it "not much lost if damaged."
Money really isn't the point anyway. No matter what the cost relative to income, people reasonably expect their computers to be designed well and to function without a great deal of trouble. I don't think the Surface series in general has been able to live up to the reputation Microsoft is attempting to give it through its marketing. The SB in particular just doesn't translate well from marketing material to functionality due in part to a variety of problems associated with the hinge (and a few other software/hardware glitches). They have earned a reputation as quirky and unreliable which doesn't help Microsoft land sales.
Come back down to earth Mr Crayons, the SB is NOT an inexpensive product. I agree with the rest of your post but you are showing your elitism with a statement like that.
That hinge can handle a lot of stress. Its been proven that durability is not an issue. The purpose of the hinge design was to counter the screen/tablet weight for proper balance when in laptop mode. So what is it exactly that's so poor in its design?
I saw where you mentioned that the stress has to be supported at one end or another but its been proven that it can handle the stress just fine. As for the gap, while aesthetically unpleasing to some, or pleasing to others, I just don't see the big deal. Like others said, it ensures the keys don't contact the screen and unlike some laptops ahem Mac Book, key travel hasn't been sacrificed.
I'd argue that it's been readily proven that the hinge design has been proven to fail under stress over time and there's little to no information available regarding the ability of the Surface Book to cope well with weight as a consequence to its design. However, there's a healthy dose of common sense that would make it pretty clear that half the plastic and metal would be less effective at supporting pressure from above or below than all of the plastic and metal.
Key travel though, that's a point I agree with. Microsoft did manage to get that done in a manner of speaking, but it really didn't have to be that way to begin with if they'd bothered to add a largely unnoticable couple of millimeters of thickness. Instead, just like Apple and other companies, the Surface Book is chasing a pretty meaningless thickness measurement and surrendering functionality to do so. In the case of the Surface Book, that compromise is even more silly because the advantage of reduced thickness is ultimately still lost because there's a gap that ultimately makes the system thicker than it would have been had Microsoft recessed the keys and still maintained key travel distance.
- the hinge design has been proven to fail under stress over time
So I am sure you have sources for that, do you?
- Instead, just like Apple and other companies, the Surface Book is chasing a pretty meaningless thickness measurement
They indeed made exactly the contrary. Instead of doing like Apple an put an almost no travel keyboard and standard hinge for specs bragging, they design a UNIQUE hinge that allow the screen to be further away when deployed for a better balancing and they put one of the maximum travel keyboard for comparably sized keyboard. The hinge is not showing millimeters as you critizise but adds some at the gain of functionality.
Too many people comment and criticize the hinge design without actually understanding its function or why it's there. The hinge is designed to extend the effective base size when the laptop is opened, so that the weight distribution leaves it balanced and not top-heavy when used as a laptop. This is needed because the screen is heavier by a bit much than a typical laptop's screen. The other option wouldve to put more weight into the base, but that would increase the overall weight if the system.
The hinge design is criticized because it eventually results in a loose connection between the base and screen, the most important vital connection for a laptop. This results in keyboard drops, display resets, total machine crashes, and the inability to, you know, work on your $2000+ device. Having a Tablet isn't worth this instability.
It's a design flaw. Every daily-used Surface Book will eventually see the hinge weaken and the above effects happen over and over again.
- This results in keyboard drops, display resets, total machine crashes
Any sources of that? I have a Surface Pro 3 and having a removal keyboard never caused me the kind of issues you are claiming. And having a separate tablet built-in in your laptop CERTAINLY worth it, I assure you.
- It's a design flaw.
The removal screen portion is a "design flaw"? You are kidding right?
"The removal screen portion is a "design flaw"? You are kidding right?"
You're missing the context clues, I think intentionally, in order to suggest the idea of a removable screen/tablet is flawed in order to build a credible argument through suggesting that someone else is stating something stupid when that's not at all the case. Dockable tablets arent the problem. The hinge and connection, as already mentioned multiple times in this article's comments, is poorly engineered.
- The hinge and connection, as already mentioned multiple times in this article's comments, is poorly engineered.
Which I think is an even more stupid comment. Look again the video of the hinge and compare to anything else on the market and you will realize that it is still unique and unrivalled design. And anyone that own a Surface Book are praising the hinge, not the contrary.
Unique doesn't automatically mean "better." I realize you want to defend this for psychological rather than practical reasons and that's completely okay. A handful of people can't help but fall in love with computers and honestly need to in order to justify why something is or isn't better than something else. Men in particular love comparing things and measuring differences in order to reach a conclusion that supports their underlying desires and will go as far as selecting other things that support their mental state. Say, comparing a Surface Book to a bottle of hand sanitizer and saying the Surface Book has better battery life and more storage space. I understand that it often can't be helped, but I encourage you to put human psychology under a critical microscope and attempt to transcend your biology during the process of thinking critically.
- Unique doesn't automatically mean "better." I realize you want to defend this for psychological rather than practical reasons and that's completely okay.
Correct (1st sentence) and wrong (2nd sentence). And this is why I make a difference between the fixed trackpad and home button of the iPhone / Mac that serve absolutely no purpose compared to the SB hinge that have a clear functionality of pushing the screen further away of the base when open (to counteract its weight). On top of that, it helps avoiding marking of the key on the screen but it is not its primary function.
Those have been explained to y ou but you still dismiss those and I don't know why even if you try to put some psychology into that whereas it is basic proven fact.
Apple only has 5% of the PC market, and yet we still take them seriously. Right? The Surface line has been very successful and very profitable for Microsoft. The Surface line has also brought innovation and excitement back into the PC market.
Apple sells about 5 million macs per quarter and Microsoft sells about 1 million surface branded computers per quarter. Therefore Apple is significantly bigger than Microsoft in sales, the difference is even more in terms of revenue.
However, despite the low sales of surface I am glad that Anandtech covers the surface range since they are innovative. I would also like to see more Apple coverage, likewise because it is innovative.
In general, I am keen on reviews of niche products and I am bored by reviews of mainstream except for providing a benchmark to judge the innovative products against.
Gee let me think for a second: iPhone, iPad, retina displays, gloss displays, uni-bodied products, all day battery life for laptops, touch pads on desktops, iMac style all-in-ones (which the studio owes a great deal to), ...
Got bored if thinking of things, who do you suggest has done more?
So Apple's innovation is taking someone else's idea and improving on it? And that impresses you? They didn't invent the smart phone, they didn't invent the tablet design or form-factor, retina is a marketing term, not anything "real". Glossy displays reflect light more and are difficult to see in several situations, they weren't the first to do an all-in-one, and what on earth do you mean by "touch pads on desktops"? Sorry but your list is weak, and is nothing but Apple taking other's ideas and running with it. Apple's only true "innovation" is making things pretty, and simple enough for tech illiterate folks to use them.
Mostly solid-state trackpads with very realistic click sensation, MagSafe (RIP), best fingerprint reader, Thunderbolt, pressure sensitive phone screens. Lightning connector, which despite being propriotory is actually very good (I've had numerous micro USB cables break on me). Ultra-slim laptops. Plenty of software tech underpinning OS X (I refuse to call it macOS for a few years). Pushing to have sRGB phased out. Pushing adoption of USB-C (and collaborating on the spec).
The company may be greedy and risking their competitiveness but they have some good innovative tech that keeps them in the business. To say Apple isn't innovative is kind of a troll-worthy comment.
TB was designed and invented by Intel, not Apple. solid-state trackpads? You realize they don't build those right? Pressure sensitive phone screens have been around for years. Best fingerprint reader is an opinion not a fact that can be validated. Ultra slim laptops are the bane of actual computing, they take dramatically reduced internals and jack up the price because "thin". "pushing adoption of USB-C" so now that's an innovation? I think your love of Apple has blinded you to the truth. Seriously, you said "with a very realistic click sensation" wtf does that even mean? Who decides what a "realistic click sensation" is? Pathetic fanboys.
Yes Apple has realized really some innovation, but as Samsung or LG or Microsoft or others.
But they have also push a lot of standard things with marketing terms to try to appropriate themselves a perception of innovation (high resolution screen, Thunderbolt, all-in-one..) or try to make "different" without advantages and tried to push that as innovative: glossy screen (often necessary with touchscreen tech but avoidable for non touch screen Mac), fix simulated trackpad (which is a complete non sense as the gain of place with the motor unexistant and worse than a real one), only USB-C ports, touch pad for desktop...
At last, they are very good at battery life but when it is at the expense of a TN low resolution non-touch screen like the iPad Air, it is just a different set of compromise than others. And the lightning cables of Apple are abn absolute chores. They last 2-4 months in average and I must have had more than 10 cables failing as regularly as a clock. This is not per see a problem of the Lightning port but the construction but still...
Apple pay, the first real mobile payments solution, airpods, it changed the wireless headphone market for the better, the smartwatch, little features with new updates and the new watch are innovative, little things that turn out to be really useful.
About the review. There are a number of errors in areas in which the reviewer doesn't seem to understand,
D65 is NOT daylight, the concept of what daylight is is very complex. For many decades, daylight has been standardized as 5.6K, not 6.5K. The reason why D65 was invented wasn't to simulate daylight, but because of practical graphics standards reasoning.
D5 has been the graphics standard going back a very long time. Every light box used for color was D5. So were print view boxes and such. The problem was that in the beginning days of computers entering the graphics space, a problem came up.
While my Barco monitors, in my place, that cost $16,000, could reach D5 calibration, no other could. The problem was that the monitors couldn't be made to display enough brightness. As a result, calibrating to D5 left us with a fairly dim, and very yellow screen. Since the red and green couldn't be brought up enough, the blue needed to be turned down, leaving that horrible screen. The barco was the only monitor that had enough brightness.
So there was much discussion, and as a result, D65 was decided upon as a compromise. It could easily be calibrated to using most high quality graphics monitors, and so that became the standard.
Now, we thing of D65 as daylight, but it isn't. Daylight varies from about D22 to about D20.0 in other words, about 2.2K to about 20K. Where you are in the world, at any given time of the day, or year, will determine what that point is, and it doesn't average D65.
It's why when a photo is taken with sunlight and open shade, the sun portion is very yellow, and the shade is mostly cyan.
This may seem to be a little point to make, but I see people misunderstanding this so often, it's frustrating. I ran a large commercial photo lab in NYC for many years, and we were one of the first to begin to go digital in 1988.
By the way, Windows has never had effective color management. Individual developers such as Adobe have had to write their own management software, which isn't usable systemwide. That means that if you have anything other than an image that is using the sRGB gamut, it won't be correct except when running in a color managed app.
Windows 10 is the first Windows OS to have a working color management system built-in, but it comes turned off, because turning it on at this late stage screws up everything else in Windows, and it's very buggy. Maybe someday, that will change. But for now, you can't view two images with differing gamuts side by side in Windows. Only one will ever show correctly.
This is one reason doing commercial color work on this will be a major headache.
All CIE standard illuminants from series D are designed to simulate daylight. I believe by D5 you mean D50, which has a lower CCT than D65. The review is not incorrect in describing D65 as representing daylight. In fact, the actual spec states that D65 should be used for all colorimetric calculations requiring a value to represent daylight. I encourage you to read ISO 11664-2.
You are correct on companies having to roll their own color management. However, Windows 10 still uses WCS, it is just as unusable as before, and neither Win32 nor UWP integrate it at all, so there is not some working CMM that is just turned off. This is why brand new UWP apps like Photos and Microsoft Edge still aren't color managed, which would be implicit in a system where the underlying graphics framework is color managed and thus any component that uses it for drawing is color managed.
Yes, D50, but, hese color spaces do not actually represent daylight. They represent a convenient compromise that allows equipment to be made and maintained, while giving some "sort" of recognizable color while point.
This is why the concept of daylight has varied so much over time. I know ISO 11664-2, because I was one of those who was consulted on this standard way back then. As I say, all of these various standards are mechanical approximations of something natural.
So, for example, what is a proper white point? Well, we really don't know. Should it be represented by something that supposedly looks something like "natural" light, whatever that is? Should it be represented by our own eye/brain combination which is most sensitive to yellow/green?
So when you look at the sky, it's about 20K. But that's not what's always reflected off an object, which could be closer to 3K, which is what we're looking at, and what our brain recognizes as "correct", with its ability to adjust its perception to various light sources.
I've undergone many permutations of these questions over the decades. And it will change again.
I did say that WCS is so buggy that it's still turned off. But that's not the only reason. Microsoft's customers don't care about color management in a large enough percentage for Microsoft to really care. They only added this, years ago, to satisfy those screaming for it, but without bothering to really work on it. Enough said, they think, that it's there.
You basically said what I did, it with more explanation. Yeah, it's always been a mess, and it's not likely to be fixed anytime soon. Android, by the way, has no color management whatsoever, and isn't likely to get any, which is why wide band screens on Android products are almost useless.
I'm curious, in the case of something like a Samsung Galaxy phone, when you select the supposedly exceptionally accurate "basic" profile is that not akin to switching colorspaces on the Studio? I mean Samsung does not use pure Android which as you said is completely inept at color management, but a modified and skinned Android that might have some rudimentary color management. Is it not?
How do I put this. If there was color management, it wouldn't matter what gamut the display was able to use, since the colors would be transformed to fit that color space, assuming the display color space covers both. So, as an example, if you were viewing a sRGB photo on a P3 D65 display, the colors would be correct because there is color management, and it knows the photo is sRGB, and it knows the display is P3 D65, so it can use some math to put the sRGB photo into the correct P3 D65 space.
If you don't have color management, and something is 85% red in sRGB, but your display is P3 D65, it will appear as 85% of the larger space, and would be oversaturated.
We should really have Brandon write up a piece on this outside of the few times he's addressed it.
Some Windows apps do have color management, and some respect the color management in Windows, but most do not. For instance the old Photo Viewer does work, but the new UWP Photos app has no color management. Apps like Adobe Photoshop have written their own color management, so they generally work well.
if you have a wide gamut screen (wider than sRGB), then yes. That is why on Android, every screen with a wider gamut than sRGB is very bad. Even on Windows, it is really a chore as most of the time is spent in web browser (some are color managed though like Firefox) or Windows app or standard programs which are not color managed.
Really, this toggle switch on the Studio is really the best solution so far on Windows (short of Microsoft implementing a system wide color management) and I wish they would allow that on any machine and let us store the ICC profile we want inside.
"So, for example, what is a proper white point? Well, we really don't know. "
In other words you are complaining that the author wasn't accurately describing true white point when you say yourself that nobody knows. Why do I get the feeling you just wanted a place to brag about your extensive understanding of color management? Why did you feel the need to cite the cost of your incredible monitor that no other monitor can touch? If you feel the need to lord your incredibly vast knowledge of sunlight please go find a digital photo community that might be more receptive to your ramblings and musings.
You can switch colorspaces on the fly. Not ideal, as the review already mentioned, but good enough for now. Furthermore this isn't exclusively targeted towards color sensitive work. Even simple document work benefits hugely from the form factor. Not to mention sketching/drawing.
It's not actually useful when doing precise color work, because you need both images on the screen at the same time, often enough. You do need to see how an Adobe RGB/HSB/Hex image looks after if been either converted to sRGB, or assigned an sRGB profile. No systemwide color mange,Win 10 means you can't do that. Well, not easily.
If you are using a color managed application (like Photoshop), you can see both images (one in rRGB and the other in whatever color space), side by side. Your comment makes no sense. It is true that not all programs (and none of modern Store app) are color managed but for the one that are, there is no issue.
Your wording is not precise enough Brandon. You can have sRGB content that is correctly displayed if it is from a color managed application. What you should say is that it is an issue for all apps and programs which are NOT color managed (irrespective of the content color space -except if it is by chance exactly matching the one from the screen-).
That is why, with this current limitation, at least, this switch on the Action Center is just the best solution I have seen on this, ever. Once you are done working with various gamut content en color managed applications (Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One Pro, Irfanview, various video editors...) that display properly the content, you can switch to sRGB for web browsing, email, or other tasks using non color managed application.
> "Windows 10 is the first Windows OS to have a working color management system built-in, but it comes turned off, because turning it on at this late stage screws up everything else in Windows, and it's very buggy."
1) The base model. At that price they should have opted for the middle specs (6820HQ, 16GB of RAM), a 512GB NVMe SSD and non of the hybrid BS. Also the graphics card should have been the equivalent pro-grade Quadro which works better, and more reliable with the pro software this PC is aimed at. They should have also offered Mobile Xeon SKUs with ECC RAM.
2) Really? No USB-C and Thunderbolt 3? I mean, this IS the type of PC you'd want to connect an external GPU to, and/or other high performance peripherals. I mean, it IS dedicated to pros, right?
3) No HDMI/DP in. No matter how good this screen is, it's nothing more than junk 3-4 years later when the hardware in the base is obsolete.....
No good, Microsoft. The negatives far outweigh the positives.... It wont get any recommends from me to anyone who isn't interested in burning $$$$$.
Exactly. I know the base will age very quickly, preaged, even, but I still want one even it if it's just to browsethe web, browse and control my media and playing with occasional drawing. So Microsoft has succeeded in creating the want factor. That in itself is quite an achievement. I won't be getting one, though. Now, I might have if the base was upgradeable, or even more likely, if the screen was sold separately.
Doesn't much matter who wants one - Microsoft store is showing two month lead times on the two low end models, and a five month lead time on the high end i7.
I can't rationalize a need for this product, and I really can't rationalize buying one, but I look at it and I love it. Hopefully by the 3rd generation they can get the price down to $1500, and I can buy one for the sake of having it.
As a long-time reader and fan of AnandTech, I am incredibly disappointed in this review. No display expert would ever recommend targeting a gamut other than sRGB under Windows. No color management is not a trivial detail - it's a fundamental problem, and color modes are a small band-aid, not an actual solution. As even the (imperfect) sRGB testing here shows, natively targeting P3 gamut inherently compromises sRGB accuracy, which should have been Microsoft's actual target.
This display is no "masterpiece" - far from it. Maybe one day a miracle will happen and Win32 can somehow add color management, but FreeSync 2 and G-Sync HDR seem like the only possible hacks that will ever reasonably work.
I read the contrary that in each color space targeted, the calibration out of the box is too notch. It is true that it is an issue that W10 is not color managed system wide like MacOS. But this is very clever to have the ability to switch from a toggle in the Action Center. In day to day activities, you are in sRGB. And when you switch to Photoshop or video editing or Capture One Pro you switch to P3-65. That is honestly a very very clever implementation in regard of the current limitation.
First of all, AnandTech, thank you for the "Illegal Photos" of large breasted Asian women who apparently live in North Korea. Who knew that so many NK women could afford and have access to breast implants?
Secondly, I am a big fan of the Surface Studio. I'm not in the target market, but I still want one. If I were to consider it, then it would have to have 1) some usb-c connectors, at least one with TB3 support, 2) latest graphics from NVidia or AMD, 3) latest CPU from Intel or AMD. I'm sure those points will be addressed with the refresh and were a result of the release timing not quite working out.
Lucky! All I get is 9 boxes telling me why I should use revcontent for my advertising (I don't own a business). I'd WAY rather take N. Korean tatas! (no I don't mean the Indian car brand)
Though it's been said before, advertising these days is usually targeted based on the recorded Internet usage habits of the individual. If you're seeing those sorts of ads, maybe it's time to reconsider what you're looking at on the Internet.
The timing seems all wrong on this thing. With the 'Creator's Update' still months away, why didn't Microsoft plan the development of their hardware so they could include Type-C, TB3, NVMe, and a 10x0 GPU, and just release it a bit closer to the software which is supposed to make the most of this device?
The reason everyone says "wow" when they see the display is because they are thinking "Wow, you just spent $4000 on a $1200 screen and a $1200 computer."
- What are some pros of having a 3:2 display again?
33% more vertical screen estate than a 16:9 screen of the same width. And usually, since quite some time, documents, books, forms...used to be vertical and not in landscape mode.
>Even with 128 GB of cache, eventually you are going to end up hitting the spinning drive for file access
Really? On my SSD I have Windows 10, Chrome (with its cache), a full suite of encoding software, a full suite of image editing software, various system utilities, Skyrim, Dead Space, Divine Divinity, seven full copies of Birth of the Federation, 5GB in music, 6GB in hiberfil, and a 20GB pagefile. Space required? 77GB.
"The most frustrating part of the Surface Studio base is that all the inputs and outputs are on the rear of the device, so connecting something over USB, or inserting a SD card into the PC, is not as simple as it should be. This is a form over function decision, and it would be nice to see some of the ports offered at least on the side of the base to make it a bit easier to access."
Not quite form over function - the hinge mechanism and 20 degree angle would interfere with ports on all three sides (the hinges fold flat along the sides, and the display either touches the front or comes very, very close when folded all the way down. Cables, SD cards and the like sticking out would make this a hassle, and essentially break the functionality that is the core of this computer.
Yes, it wouldn't work in the current design perfectly (although the SD card could easily be at the front) but regardless, having all of the ports on the rear makes it a chore to access them.
I saw that and thought a break out box would be nice. Of course that would make it less tidy, but having a bunch of cables run from around the backside worse.
Is the motherboard and other hardware in the base, separate from the screen, meaning it could (at least in theory) be replaced while keeping the display?
A display this good/expensive *has* to last at least 3 computers - so a definite no-go if it has to follow the motherboard/cpu/ram/ssd to the trash in 3 years!
I think we will see this with an upgraded base ala Surface Book. I doubt it will ever be user upgradeable which would be a nice. I don't know why people insist this will be in the trash in 3 years. Give it to me! If intels progress is any indication, you CPU will be good for a loooong time. Also for what this is designed for, I just don't see the applications out running the hardware anytime soon. With the Creators Update not out for a bit, I think they had enough time and should have went 1060/107 at least for the high end. Overall, a lust worthy machine. I don't need one, but damn I wouldn't mind having one.
I applaud the company for this obsessive attention to detail but what in the hell were they thinking fitting oldtech inside? thats just crazy and goes on the opposite spectrum of that obsessive attention to detail!
-new cpu -new gpu (lol, easily the BIGGEST mistake) -ssd pcienvme only (I take a piss on their hybrid crap) -in 2017, any computer should be dead silent while doing light workloads (browse, email etc). WTF they were thinking, designing this device with artists/creators in mind and giving them a noisy computer when they need SILENCE to be able to create properly!!! -still big bezels on the otherwise wonderful display.
And LOL, ETA 6months for a GTX980??? thats gotta be a joke or something, when your "new" pc is arriving, that maxell is gonna be very ancient tech already, not just old!
As usual, wait for the next wave when they'll learn their lesson. Buying this now is kinda stupid.
Artists don't have a clue about anything you just wrote. They will just see the price tag and think "man this thing must be good" and will buy it. Do you really think the average artist knows the difference between a 965, a 980, and a 1080?
So.. monitor is AWESOME and other parts are worse than $1500 laptop. Why doesn't they sell the monitor+touchscreen as a separate USB-C device, i.e. for $1500? I'd get one ASAP!
Because then they couldn't milk you dry. If they sold this for $1500, who in their right mind would buy the full kit for $4k when they could add it to a $1500 machine that would mop the floor with this? Duh, because profits!
This isn't being priced as a tool for home. It's being priced as a professional tool for artists.
When professional artists draw, they want to be able to taper the thickness of a line based on how much pressure they put on the stylus.
Surface Studio is just not sensitive enough to get a smoothly tapering line, especially towards the bottom of the scale. This is not a problem you have with Wacom's products.
One thing this review doesn't mention is smoothness of the interface. I played around with a base model of this at the MSFT store. While I cannot say what the models with higher end GPUs would perform like, the model that I used was severeky handicapped by the GPU. Just moving windows around the screen was super jaggy. IMO, smooth performance is key to a machine like that. This is something Apple understands with its devices, both mobile and Macs.
MSFT creates a PC based on a gorgeous high definition screen and then handicaps it with an inadequate GPU. It's the eMachines all over again with wildly mismatched compents and crimped by too little RAM, too weak GPU and a horrid hard drive. Unlike eMachines, this doesn't sell at bargain prices.
This alone to make this product a non-starter. You MUST have smoother experience on a computer such as this.
It all looks very impressive but shelling out 4.200$+tax and still ending up with only 128GB SSD cache/storage is simply wrong in my opinion. I am OK with Maxwell graphics since this is not gaming machine.
I like Windows 10 and the Xbox One, but when it comes to hardware from Microsoft, especially with niche products, don't expect support for that many years.
Examples, Surface RT, Band 1, Band 2, Zune Player. Also, consider little to no mainstream app support for Windows phones. I'm sure there are more examples people can come up with.
I use a Mac laptop at work and also have one at home. We have a lot of pro-Microsoft people at work including my boss who is the VP of software development. We also are working closely with Microsoft on a major project. Many of the people I work with got a Surface Pro 4 thinking they would really lie it but all of them are sick of all the issues and the service desk finally stopped allowing them because of all the issues. Several of the developers, including my boss, have Mac laptops on order now.
Nice to see a timely review of a product. At this point, it is looking like the Touch Bar Macbook Pro review may not be out before the hardware is revised.
I want to purchase the top level version but I need the ability to connect the audio to my Home Theater system. I only see a 3.5mm audio port so I assume at best I'd have stereo? Any options for have full HD audio out?
I find this product fascinating. I'm not sure I agree that Microsoft tries to add something interesting in every computer since the Surface - they add touch to desktop PC - Suface, Surface Pro, Surface Book, Surface Laptop, and Surface studio. But, he addition of touch to a desktop PC does some very interesting things which are natural outgrowth of touch - 2 in 1 with detachable keyboard, UI that switches between desktop and tablet mode, pen support. All of these are natural outgrowths of the decision to put touch on desktops. The problem is that comes with trade-offs. The most important is cost. the Surface studio is $4000 - that would pay for an amaizngly speced out Mac or and an epically speced out traditional PC. I have heard the surface studio is slow (I don't own one but have played with it in store and based on Leo Leports comments) but what one would expect from the hardware that powers that screen (and the decision to put it into a tiny box). My wife is a professional photographer - and she really needs power in her computer. the size of her imports, running lightroom, photoshop, and a brower continually and switching between them need a powerful computer not to be slow. So the surface studio, even if it would be awesome for the occasional very precise artistic edit, wouldn't work well for the day to day grind of a photographer - and I expect the dame problem for a video editor, or graphic designer would have the same problems with lack of power. Why not attach that amazing screen to a giant box filled with i7s a ton of fast RAM and a huge SSD and a bunch of fans? sure it would cost a lot more like $10,000 - but it would do the job it is supposed to do well, unlike now where it is crippled by a trade off for aesthetics and to keep the price low (you could put at least a few better parts in the little box like a great SSD which would have helped and kept the aesthetics). I am fasciated to see who will be right. Microsoft with desktop computers need touch, or Mac that desktops needs mouse and keyboard and touch based "tablets (although a 27" ipad would be an interesting device for photo editing if it were fast enough and had enough storage)" are the only things that have touch. For me buying a computer in exchange for the additional cost for the touch screen, I'd rather have that money spent on more RAM or a better CPU or a faster SSD.
Such a shame: Microsoft takes an innovative leap past Apple but snatched defeat from the jaws of victory sabotaged by it's buggy unreliable aged Windows operating system and poor quality control. No wonder Apple isn't rushing out large touchscreens: the competition just cannot deliver on them. Unfortunate because competition keeps vendors innovating.
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Devo2007 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
With all the bugs of the Surface Pro 4 tablet and Surface Book, I wouldn't call either of them among the best. As for the Surface Studio, it is aimed at such a niche audience that it will probably be quite some time before we see any major issues pop up, but I won't be surprised when (not if) they do.ingwe - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I have a Surface Pro 4 for work and it locks up at least once a day. Sometimes it doesn't recognize the type cover that I have. It took me a while to sort out the battery drain issue while it was sleeping. It frequently locks up while restarting. Literally the exact hardware that I want and the software just seems to be so buggy. It's a real shame.BurntMyBacon - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
That's a shame. I would've hoped it would behave more like the Surface Book given the same software and similarities in the hardware.I haven't had any issues with my Surface Book thus far that weren't a result of my own software and configuration choices. No lockups at all to this date. Some quirky behavior with Edge early on that got fixed with updates (All Win10 devices?). Abnormal pauses were reproducible on a desktop Win10 system and I've adjusted my configuration to eliminate this issue on both. Games work well enough despite not getting the latest nVidia drivers. My uncle said he had some issues with his early on, but it didn't take them long to resolve them.
I'll have to keep in mind that the Surface Pro 4 experience isn't necessarily the same as the Surface Book experience.
nikon133 - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
In my experience, Surface Pro 3 is much more stable platform than Surface Pro 4.Had a chance to use both, actually switch between SP3 and SP4 a few times. On paper, SP4 would be my choice - less heat, less fan activity, slightly bigger, better, higher res screen... a bit lighter, too.
However... I had chance to play with two SP4. One was repaired/refurbished, the other one brand new. Solid 5 months in-between, so they couldn't be same batch. Both SP4 exhibited touch-screen issues... at some point, every couple of days or so, screen would stop reacting to touch. Type cover would work. Reboot later, touch screen is back, no errors in event log to point to driver crashing or any other observable problem. This was kind of "fixed" at some point, where touch-screen would stop reacting, and then start reacting on its own, after a few seconds, as if Windows was restarting touch-screen tech/software automatically on detected problem, so no need to restart whole Surface... basically more of a workaround than real fix. Refurbished one also had problem with Halo - face recognition was a bit of hit-and-miss, even under good light. Seemed to be very sensitive to distance between camera and face, as if DoF was really shallow. The new one was much more reliable with Halo tech (software updates that were released in the meantime, or refurb had somehow flawed Halo hardware?). Both SP4 had a bit of an issue with my LinkSys ADSL modem/router which I also used as wireless AP. Arguably that part might have been down to ADSL device, but then again - two SP3 I have been using had none of these issues.
mr_tawan - Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - link
My SP3 does not detect the type cover quite often. Not really sure if it's physical damage or software issue though. I'm considering getting a cheap chinese cover which runs on bluetooth instead of the i2c interface. Even if the connector is damaged, the keyboard should still works (downside is I have to recharge the keyboard once in a while, and have to turn it on or off manually)Other than that my SP3 runs pretty solid, although the GPU is pretty much underpowered.
mr_tawan - Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - link
Oh and since my keyboard is out of warrantee now, getting a replacement is almost the same price as buying a new one.swaaye - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The only problem I've had with my Surface Pro 4 is screen flicker when it's at low brightness. It's only a problem in a dark room when brightness is about 10%. But yeah I have heard about all the other issues people have seen with them.Samus - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
We had a lot of problems with a whole batch of Surface 3's at a law office. Eventually Microsoft agreed to swap them all for Surface 4's. Problems from battery performance to two of them just outright dying.vLsL2VnDmWjoTByaVLxb - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
On my Fourth Surface Book since buying one pre-order back in October 2015. I need to turn it in for a fifth one later this month. The device(s) have never worked to my satisfaction. The first three suffered from graphical glitches, crashes, wakeup oddities, and strange glitches. The one I'm on now will randomly have the keyboard/mouse stop functioning after waking up, inability to wake up, and the hinge is "loose" so that the Surface Book frequently thinks it is detached/reattached. So tired of dealing with this thing.damianrobertjones - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Then get a refund and perhaps move on? After the second I'd have asked for a refund or sold it.vLsL2VnDmWjoTByaVLxb - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The second one 3 months in? After Microsoft kept promising driver/firmware updates to address the issues?It's a business laptop that was going to be a test case for our company, selling it isn't our job. Microsoft extended the warranty, and we decided on XPS 15's instead for our fleet. (which work nearly flawlessly in comparison.)
It wasn't capable of reliable external display/peripheral use either, the dock sucked.
Icehawk - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Yeah we have SP3s, 4s, and SBs at my work and none of them work reliably with more than one monitor. Our clients just love that.sprockkets - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
Not trying to troll, but that's like every MS computer since forever.I have an Asus computer that can't wake up either with Windows 8 or 10. Works fine with Linux, SuSE 42.1. Yea, linux isn't perfect but MS has had decades to get standby right, and can't.
Remember the last time an ios or android device failed to wake up when hitting the power button? Me either.
philehidiot - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Sprokkets, that's a damned good point. How can waking from a sleep state continue to confuse Microsoft when as you rightly point out, phones do it multiple times a day flawlessly. It's maddening and you can't realistically sleep your PC during critical work without saving everything (and when you've multiple tabs, papers, word, Excel and PowerPoint documents open that's one big pain in the arse).thebuccaneergentleman - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
I don't know if EVERY MS computer is like this... Some are and some are not. We deployed hundreds of Surface Pro 1, 2 and 3s over the years at my company. Some were very good... many were not. The higher-ups though decided to pass on the Surface Pro 4 and started to purchase Lenovo laptops. It was a good call. Our IT support cases have dropped into single digits for the new Lenovos. MS had a PERFECT idea with the Surface. I LOVE the concept. But their execution (at least till the Surface Pro 3 as I have not used a SP4) was less than stellar. Too bad. Its hard to rebound from even a small bad batch.niva - Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - link
Yeah that's a ridiculous statement.I've been using linux for about 10 years now on all sorts of computers. Typically you will encounter issues in linux exactly with things like standby and sleep mode, even if everything else works out of the box. Don't even get me started on drivers for new hardware like dedicated graphics or application support. I've stayed with Windows pretty much 100% due to my Photoshop needs. Sure I game some on my desktop too, but these days even that wouldn't be enough.
I love linux, it's great for many things, especially for the price, but the area you brought up as an advantage somehow you're completely wrong about.
This new device from Microsoft is interesting. The price is ridiculous though. I'll wait for future generations and see how things go in the future. As an artist I'm definitely interested in these types of devices.
tamalero - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
There are a lot of stuff that Microsoft hs fucked up over the years.For example.. if your monitors turn off (multiple monitors). Your color calibration information resets to default.
Shutting down any monitor will now cause all the icons to switch to the remaining monitor and the color calibration will be lost as well.
Microsoft support tech(from India and Turkey) only kept repeating the same BS recipe of "reboot, didnt work? then boot in safe mode" and then end with "Its working as intended, its not a bug. We will report this to the developers for xxx reason" and nothing..
Rezurecta - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
MS support is good. Just get you surface exchanged.geekman1024 - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
MS support is good, but their hardware products' quality isn't.My Surface 3's pen function is bad straight out of the box, so I have to send it in for repair the day I've got it. The Surface Pen 4 I've bought for the Surface have its bluetooth function working intermittently, most of the time the top button click doesn't work. Then I remembered I used to have a MS wireless laser mouse + keyboard combo which died 3 months after purchase. My XBox 360 RRoD'ed just a few weeks after warranty expired, nice calculation on the MTTF, Microsoft.
Seems like EVERY MS hardware product I owned have to turn bad at some time. Is it my bad luck or MS's QC needs some debugging?
goatfajitas - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Exactly... I dont want good support nearly as much as I want it to not break... Same reason I dont buy a Kia with a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty. I dont want it to break and be fixed for free, I want to not be stuck with a broken car I have to deal with regardless of who pays for it. This comment section alone is riddled with Surface Pro and Surface Book users reporting all sorts of issues. Pass. Big time pass.fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
I got screwed on the RRoD twice. I haven't bought a Microsoft product since, which isn't easy in this day and age.batteries4ever - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Fascinating.... I had major problems with a Dell 7275 tablet before... all of which were solved after switching to the Surface Pro 4, which I would gladly recommend to everybody, expect maybe heavy duty users..... Also hooking the thing up to a beamer "just works" . The only problem I had turned out to be a connector to a monitor causing frequent tries to switch between 1 and 2 monitors which locked up my Surface.damianrobertjones - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
We have a whole load of SP3 and SSP4 device, in work, so we're aware of the various aspects of the hardware and software. So far, other than a SP3 wireless card dropping from the machine, we've experienced little to no issues. A few black screens that were resolved with the power button+volume button but that's about it.I always clean refresh and immediately update to the latest build etc.
piroroadkill - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
What people really want to know is: when I can buy just that screen?unrulycow - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
+1lilmoe - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
AHHHHH, I just love that aspect ratio.macmhathain - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
so much better than 16:9 - which is horrible for everything except watching wide screen movies. Who does that on their computer anymore? and especially bad for word processing or for the web!Picobozo - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
You mean the Dell Canvas?http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/5/14128434/dells-ca...
tamalero - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
The resolution is too low imho.piroroadkill - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
But that's just a run of the mill 27" 16:9 2560×1440 monitor, nothing special. The resolution, 192 DPI and aspect ratio of the Surface Studio are what make it special.casperes1996 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The Surface Display + a new Mac Pro = yes! I know it eliminates the point of touch, but I don't care much for it either way. I love the rest of the display design though.simonm - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
You know something about a new Mac computer? Do tell!TheinsanegamerN - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Oh, it's great! they've moved to the new intel U series chips to give us a smoother, more complete experience, and a new geforce 940MX graphics card for CUDA acceleration! They start at the new price of $2400 for the bast model, and $3200 for the model with more then 4GB soldered to the mobo.Gich - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
"The GTX 980M handles desktop duties just fine, but if you do want to stretch its legs with some games [...]"Games? With this? Why?
TheinsanegamerN - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
perhaps some creative professionals would like to play a game of civ now and again?ddriver - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Actually many of the professional applications are just as demanding to GPU performance, even not even more, because besides graphics there is also compute.All in all, this product is silly, good screen, decent design, but the specs are disappointing. A spinner drive in a 4200$ product, seriously?
Replace in the drive with a nvme, replace the gpu with a 1070, and at the same price point, I might consider buying it.
ddriver - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
And while other products are being lousy by only having USB C ports, this one does the exact opposite, it is being lousy by only having A ports.If 4 is the limit, then it should be 2 A, 1 C and one thunderbolt.
gerz1219 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
What's interesting is that creative professionals are already a niche market, but by offering midrange laptop performance, they're basically cutting out a large segment of that niche -- video editors with demanding workflows, motion graphics artists, digital compositors, and basically anyone working in 3D. The Studio seems to be aimed primarily at photo editors and graphic designers who spend all day in less demanding applications, but that's a niche of a niche, and lots of those other users I mentioned would love a high-resolution touch display with pen input.Would be interesting if they competed directly with the Wacom Cintiq line, because that display is much better than what Wacom currently has on offer.
simonm - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Very good summation. Plus the 3:2 aspect ratio isn't ideal for videographers. This seems to be for digital artists, photographers, desktop publishers and the like.With those specs and prices I certainly don't see this thing flying off the shelf but it's a decent first attempt.
TheinsanegamerN - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
hasnt it already sold out?Gigaplex - Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - link
That doesn't mean much unless you know how much stock they had.fallaha56 - Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - link
this is absolutely itwhat an idiotic idea to release this with anything less than cutting edge hardware
especially the HDD and GPU -MS muppets
Keao - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Well to have just one computer for both uses in case you're having a home office and want to unwind playing games every now and then.Also i concur with piroroadkill, I'd love to get the screen + hinge alone to be powered by my desktop unit :-3
tipoo - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
If you buy a 4 grand machine for creative work, running a game on the side is just a bonus. No one is buying this as a dedicated gaming machine, of course.Gich - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Yes, so not really a point to make that it sucks at gaming.Devo2007 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Except that for some reason it has a built in wireless adapter for the XBOX One controller. Can't even play some of the Play Anywhere games like Forza Horizon 3 or Gears of War at the best settings.jlabelle2 - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
What are "best settings"? I am sure it can play Horizon 3 at 1080p like a XBox One or Battefield.It is an awesome little addition (the wireless controller built-in).
DanNeely - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Artists at game companies would be the most trivial example.lefty2 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
"Most people would use the pen with the same hand as they would use the mouse, and their non-dominant hand ends up not being utilized."This is not true if you are using photoshop. You have your left hand on the keyboard to quickly switch tools (i.e 'e' for erase, 'b' for brush, etc.)
BrokenCrayons - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I love your work Brett, but um..."Even at first glance, the sleek, beautiful lines are readily apparent..."
That's got cheesy written all over it. I know that it's good to help build mental images in the reader's mind when writing descriptively, but you're reviewing computer hardware here and not writing a romance novel. Besides that, you have pictures clearly showing a rectangular screen attached to a little box with an angular base. What exactly is sleek about it? It's blocky, industrial, and machine manufactured and Microsoft's designers didn't appear to make any attempt to hide that fact.
Brett Howse - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Sorry, I love this stuff. Perhaps I get carried away.Drumsticks - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I played with one of these at the Microsoft Store shortly after announcing it. The hinge and the display truly are breathtaking.melgross - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Breathtaking? Really? What's so breathtaking about a hinge. We don't even know if it will last yet.BrokenCrayons - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Hyperventilation when gazing upon a photograph of a display hinge is apparently perfectly normal around here. :DManch - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Yup, like full launches in a Tesla, you only get a limited number. Or maybe, just maybe MS did some tests like they did with the Surface Hinges.jlabelle2 - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
- What's so breathtaking about a hingeRead the review!
fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
If a hinge is breathtaking, what is the Grand Canyon? Mount Everest? Niagara Falls? I think maybe the hyperbole in everyday life has gone a bit too far.jlabelle2 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
- If a hinge is breathtaking, what is the Grand Canyon?Well, Apple used to say that the AirPod are magical and the touch bar genius and revolutionary so yeah, in this kind of overhyped marketing, breathtaking is probably a conservative adjective :-)
edchombeau - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Great that the display can be folded down. I agree on haveing a larger SSD. I would also like a model with just Intel 630 integrated graphics and NO discrete GPU. Since I'm not a gamer ; I would like that lower cost cooler running option.fallaha56 - Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - link
Intel GPU at 5K -lol!you wouldn't want that, not even for apps -intel GFX hardware and drivers are a joke
tipoo - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Nice machine it seems like. People may balk at the price, but a 27 inch digitizer like a Wacom almost costs as much as this machine, and doesn't have a fairly high performance computer inside either.That said, that's also why I wish there was a touchscreen-free version for less, I'm not artsy enough to need that, but a straight iMac competitor from Microsoft could be nice.
Seems a lot of people have been griping about lack of a 1060, but the 980M is near identical in performance.
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards...
TheinsanegamerN - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
A 1080m would be preferred, in all honesty.tipoo - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Probably wouldn't fit in here. The laptop TDPs aren't that much lower than the desktop TDPs in this generation as they're mostly the same chip with slightly lower clocks. The cooling design seems pretty elaborate as-is just for the 980M.DanNeely - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
TDPs for the mobile pascal are finally out, and a mobile 1070 might fit the TDP constraints. the 980M is a 100W part, vs 80/110/150 for the mobile 1060/70/80 GPUs. It's 10W more on paper; but nVidia has been more flexible with power vs performance on mobile parts before. Worst case I'd assume that like the surface book, they'd just slap a different model number on a cut power/performance model.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nvidia_graph...
BrokenCrayons - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I have to wonder a little where those TDP numbers came from because GeForce.com, the cited source, doesn't appear to have them listed anyplace I could find on a cursory search. If the numbers are accurate, then when I made an off the cuff estimate about the mobile 1080 TDP being not too far off the 180W of its desktop counterpart based on heat pipe counts extrapolated from a single pipe on a Dell Latitude D630 accounting for power draw from the dual PSUs of this laptop...http://www.anandtech.com/show/10795/the-clevo-p870...
...then I was pretty darned close to reality. Anyway, if those are accurate, the TDP is HIGHLY disappointing. 75W for the 1050? What's wrong with people? A midrange GPU used to have a TDP of 20W back in the 8600M GT days and a low end 8400M GS was a mere 11W. Those GPUs were in much thicker, relatively less cramped laptops too so cooling them was easy. While it's nice to see Intel lowering TDP as technology improves, Nvidia (AMD too) continue to increase TDP despite node shrinks. It's a good time to exit computer gaming entirely and sit it out until GPUs hit the same TDP peak and then decline the CPU industry discovered years ago.
TheinsanegamerN - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I am curious as well. the 1050 mobile pulling 75 watt would make no sense, as the 960m was only a 55 watt part, and the 1050ti is not only faster, but fits in the same power envelope. The 1050 is much more likely to be a 30 watt part.Icehawk - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Huh? Since Maxwell power #s have been getting smaller, I can run a gaming rig off a 450W supply instead of a 600+.BrokenCrayons - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
"Since Maxwell" is not a very long history. Besides that "can run a gaming rig" isn't a very specific measurement. SLI? Low end GPU? High end GPU? CPU TDP? Number of hard drives? Other components in the system? Look a bit deeper. In addition to that, I've NEVER run a "gaming rig" off more than a 400W PSU. That doesn't mean much of anything though without me offering a long history of computer hardware configurations that can quantify power consumption. In addition to that, most people usually purchase more power supply than they really need because they're caught in marketing hype and overly conservative vendor recommendations. I've seen quite a few 1KW power supplies feeding a 95W processor and a single midrange graphics card for when 350W would be entirely sufficient.fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
You couldn't be more correct. I got swindled by the MOAR POWER hype on my first build, ended up with a 700W PSU to power a single HDD, a Q6600, and an 8800 GTS. I could have gotten by with 400 EASILY.BillBear - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
A Wacom Cintiq continues to work after you purchase upgraded computer hardware, so you aren't stuck with an outdated CPU and GPU.Also, the Cintiq has double the pressure sensitivity, adds tilt sensitivity that the Surface lacks completely, and most troublesome, there is a distinct lag between moving the pen and seeing your input on the screen when compared to Wacom's professional solution.
Brett Howse - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
It also has a much smaller, lower resolution display, without touch support.BillBear - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
That doesn't become worthless when you need to upgrade the computer's hardware.If you're going to make something this expensive, yet disposable due to a lack of hardware upgradability, it needs to at least be on par with existing professional drawing tools. Wacom's pen is much more advanced, it's color management is much more advanced, and the Express Key Remote is much more advanced than the Surface Dial.
Also, I'm not sure where you get the notion that Wacom's products can not support multitouch.
jlabelle2 - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
How does this "double pressure" sensitivity translates in real world?Let's imagine that you have 1024 level of pressure, and that the max displacement of the screen would be 1mm when pressing fully, it means that 1 increment of level of pressure corresponds to less than 0,001mm or 1um. Does home people really believe it makes a difference and people can be as precise as that? Lol.
id4andrei - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Tipoo, all Surfii are hybrids. I think MS will never allow you to plug into a Surface to use just the screen. It's about driving(forcefully) a way of computing consisting with MS vision. It's PC plus as opposed to post PC.theuglyman0war - Saturday, January 28, 2017 - link
There is a 27 inch wacom digitizer? No one tells me anything. :(I been waiting for a pressure sensitive pen enabled tablet/aio at 27 inches or higher forever. The nearly 5k fidelity is nearly to much to resist. Breathtaking? Id take one of these first attempts at this form factor over a front row seat for the next Hailey's comet at the grand canyon with the playmate of the year giving me a lap dance. Even knowing that improved versions are most likely going to be released that address silly issues because I have been waiting forever for large. And for an old school traditional background artist who had the idea that going small, precious and timid was a sin where going large and drawing sweeping gesture friendly strokes on a large canvas using more than anemic carpal inducing wrist motion is an ingrained prejudice I have been suffering with no relief. I would have to believe then that I am the target market and anyone that doesn't find rabid excitement in the prospect of next years release simply because this AIO now exists... Simply is not the intended creative type in mind who has been waiting so long they r stupid enough to pay the ridiculous price and r grateful for the opportunity.
Even the dial that slides down the screen.! Just the idea that future iterations might have the Jog Shuttle sexiness of an old GVG Grass Valley Group editing dial for dialing in sublime levels of interactive seeking has me literally frothing rabid with anticipation! ( Particularly if they allow future implementations to be as open and supported as their Dev friendly Kinect example! )
I find more exciting at the prospect of future versions simply because the device form factor with it's initial faults is finally here! ( please.. must go larger )
The last thing I want to hear is naysaying ( God forbid they decide to close shop on this line of product from as much negativity )
Silly I know... But from my point of view the machine is as precariously fragile as a newborn infant from the point of view of a newborn father who thought he was infertile and only wants to see that potential grow up and be...
Realized!
BillBear - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The Surface Dial is not so much innovative as it is a direct copy of Adobe's "place a plastic object on the screen to give commands while drawing" Ink and Slide idea from several years ago.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmRgQX82O4
BillBear - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Youtube fail!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4wzIumB5PU
nathanddrews - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Microsoft's Surface predates Adobe's Ink and Slide by several years. Detection and interaction with real world objects existed with Surface 1.0.https://youtu.be/6VfpVYYQzHs
BrokenCrayons - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I beleive the point was that the DIAL, just released with the Surface Studio was predated by the Ink and Slide thingy from Adobe and doesn't appear to be a unique or new idea.BillBear - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Likewise, in the professional drawing space, Wacom's Cintiq has long come with the Express Key Remote, which is another take on the "place a plastic object on the screen to give commands while drawing" concept.I was at a loss to see how so many reviewers claimed Microsoft was being "innovative" here.
Manch - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
The tech came from a company called perceptive pixel which MS bought out. It used to require some hefty GPU & CPU resources to work one of those tables. It still does in a sense, but nowhere near as it used to be. MS helped refine the tech quite a bit.theuglyman0war - Saturday, January 28, 2017 - link
I really hope they do not stop dev of the dial idea. I'd love future iterations with inner and outer rings for more navigation possibilities. Hopefully supporting an open Development community like they did with Kinect.I have dreams Of GVG grass Valley Group shuttle seek sexiness that is portable as a puck and whose position onscreen can be programmed by me for the tools and pipelines I greedily need that is unique to my needs.
I want! almost as much as I want them to go up to a 36 inch display! ( which would had been the smallest canvas I ever stretched to paint on. Crazy! I live in a world where smaller is always better. It is not )
TEAMSWITCHER - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The only big advantage I see is the hinge and pen driven touchscreen. This product reminds me of the flying car... Where your target market is limited to people that have a pilot licence and want to drive an ugly unsafe car. Surface Studio appeals most to the artist that does not care about value or performance.Brett Howse - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
OK so the advantages of this are exactly it's strong points. Good to know.Manch - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
^^^LMFAO!!!melgross - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Now, if Microsoft can figure out how to sell any of these things. They haven't broken 4 million in yearly sales for the Surface line of tablets yet. In fact, going by the sales numbers in dollars, they sold just about 3.7 million in the past 12 months. I really don't know why such a big deal is being made of these things.Surface Book sales are very poor too. There's a lot of hype going on about these products, which seems to be wasted words.
nathanddrews - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
It takes a couple years for the enterprise world to catch up. Lots of businesses still running Windows 7, lots of competition from HP and Dell hardware, especially in the tablet/convertible space. Extended Windows 7 support ends in 2020...melgross - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The enterprise has had plenty of time. Surface Pro products seem to mostly be used by IT. I've never seen one anywhere else. They are very expensive, particularly for a Windows product, as is this.Icehawk - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
We have a few but they are limited to the execs due to cost vs normal laptops, they don't work with multiple monitors reliably which is great fun to supportSaolDan - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
you must live in California.fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
My company employs over 260,000 people, and we just got WIN7 last year. We still have some users on XP. So "it takes a couple years for the enterprise world to catch up" is exactly right. Don't underestimate the need for compatibility with legacy applications in older, larger companies. Besides that, it isn't exactly a small undertaking to swap out the OS (or PCs for that matter) when you are literally dealing with hundreds of thousands of users. The enterprise world is VERY slow to adapt outside of Silicon Valley (or the tech sector in general).BrokenCrayons - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The Surface Book's biggest problem is its awful hinge design that doesn't let you fully close the system like pretty much every other clamshell design ever. It leaves that awkward gap to keep the screen from making contact with the keyboard that Microsoft couldn't figure out how to recess deep enough to keep it off the screen were they to give it a more effective hinge. I can't imagine anyone would examine the thing and be impressed by those painfully obvious oversights.Friendly0Fire - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Funny, the hinge is actually one of the things I like most about the SB. It means the keyboard isn't recessed and I don't have key markings on my screen every time I open it.It's not because it's different that it's bad, you know?
BrokenCrayons - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Key blemishes on a screen are as much of an indication of poor design as the shortcut Microsoft took with the Surface Book's hinge. Either way, you're the victim of thoughtless engineering. Though the biggest problem with the Surface Book hinge isn't really the fact that it underscores the error with keyboard placement, but that it robs the entire system of structural strength when closed. Instead of the whole system accepting pressure and distributing it across the entire chassis, one half or another will be forced to endure those forces alone.There's nothing wrong with finding the appearance appealing. It's simply that in either an attempt to create a visual difference or as compensation for poorly thought out system design, Microsoft selected the hinge to the detriment of its customers. It's not a big deal, really. The Surface Book is an inexpensive little system so there's not much lost if one is damaged. It just seems like thoughtlessness on the part of the company demonstrated in a very visual manner for sketchy justification.
Devo2007 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Surface Book inexpensive? Oh, to have disposable income like that to consider a $2000 laptop inexpensive enough to consider it "not much lost if damaged."BrokenCrayons - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Money really isn't the point anyway. No matter what the cost relative to income, people reasonably expect their computers to be designed well and to function without a great deal of trouble. I don't think the Surface series in general has been able to live up to the reputation Microsoft is attempting to give it through its marketing. The SB in particular just doesn't translate well from marketing material to functionality due in part to a variety of problems associated with the hinge (and a few other software/hardware glitches). They have earned a reputation as quirky and unreliable which doesn't help Microsoft land sales.fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Come back down to earth Mr Crayons, the SB is NOT an inexpensive product. I agree with the rest of your post but you are showing your elitism with a statement like that.BrokenCrayons - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
I'm sorry! I was really trying to focus on the design and not so much the cost.Manch - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
That hinge can handle a lot of stress. Its been proven that durability is not an issue. The purpose of the hinge design was to counter the screen/tablet weight for proper balance when in laptop mode. So what is it exactly that's so poor in its design?BrokenCrayons - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
You'll see it a couple posts up from the one you replied to.Manch - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
I saw where you mentioned that the stress has to be supported at one end or another but its been proven that it can handle the stress just fine. As for the gap, while aesthetically unpleasing to some, or pleasing to others, I just don't see the big deal. Like others said, it ensures the keys don't contact the screen and unlike some laptops ahem Mac Book, key travel hasn't been sacrificed.BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - link
I'd argue that it's been readily proven that the hinge design has been proven to fail under stress over time and there's little to no information available regarding the ability of the Surface Book to cope well with weight as a consequence to its design. However, there's a healthy dose of common sense that would make it pretty clear that half the plastic and metal would be less effective at supporting pressure from above or below than all of the plastic and metal.Key travel though, that's a point I agree with. Microsoft did manage to get that done in a manner of speaking, but it really didn't have to be that way to begin with if they'd bothered to add a largely unnoticable couple of millimeters of thickness. Instead, just like Apple and other companies, the Surface Book is chasing a pretty meaningless thickness measurement and surrendering functionality to do so. In the case of the Surface Book, that compromise is even more silly because the advantage of reduced thickness is ultimately still lost because there's a gap that ultimately makes the system thicker than it would have been had Microsoft recessed the keys and still maintained key travel distance.
jlabelle2 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
- the hinge design has been proven to fail under stress over timeSo I am sure you have sources for that, do you?
- Instead, just like Apple and other companies, the Surface Book is chasing a pretty meaningless thickness measurement
They indeed made exactly the contrary. Instead of doing like Apple an put an almost no travel keyboard and standard hinge for specs bragging, they design a UNIQUE hinge that allow the screen to be further away when deployed for a better balancing and they put one of the maximum travel keyboard for comparably sized keyboard.
The hinge is not showing millimeters as you critizise but adds some at the gain of functionality.
nabnel - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Too many people comment and criticize the hinge design without actually understanding its function or why it's there. The hinge is designed to extend the effective base size when the laptop is opened, so that the weight distribution leaves it balanced and not top-heavy when used as a laptop. This is needed because the screen is heavier by a bit much than a typical laptop's screen. The other option wouldve to put more weight into the base, but that would increase the overall weight if the system.vLsL2VnDmWjoTByaVLxb - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The hinge design is criticized because it eventually results in a loose connection between the base and screen, the most important vital connection for a laptop. This results in keyboard drops, display resets, total machine crashes, and the inability to, you know, work on your $2000+ device. Having a Tablet isn't worth this instability.It's a design flaw. Every daily-used Surface Book will eventually see the hinge weaken and the above effects happen over and over again.
jlabelle2 - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
- This results in keyboard drops, display resets, total machine crashesAny sources of that?
I have a Surface Pro 3 and having a removal keyboard never caused me the kind of issues you are claiming.
And having a separate tablet built-in in your laptop CERTAINLY worth it, I assure you.
- It's a design flaw.
The removal screen portion is a "design flaw"? You are kidding right?
BrokenCrayons - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
"The removal screen portion is a "design flaw"? You are kidding right?"You're missing the context clues, I think intentionally, in order to suggest the idea of a removable screen/tablet is flawed in order to build a credible argument through suggesting that someone else is stating something stupid when that's not at all the case. Dockable tablets arent the problem. The hinge and connection, as already mentioned multiple times in this article's comments, is poorly engineered.
jlabelle2 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
- The hinge and connection, as already mentioned multiple times in this article's comments, is poorly engineered.Which I think is an even more stupid comment. Look again the video of the hinge and compare to anything else on the market and you will realize that it is still unique and unrivalled design.
And anyone that own a Surface Book are praising the hinge, not the contrary.
BrokenCrayons - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Unique doesn't automatically mean "better." I realize you want to defend this for psychological rather than practical reasons and that's completely okay. A handful of people can't help but fall in love with computers and honestly need to in order to justify why something is or isn't better than something else. Men in particular love comparing things and measuring differences in order to reach a conclusion that supports their underlying desires and will go as far as selecting other things that support their mental state. Say, comparing a Surface Book to a bottle of hand sanitizer and saying the Surface Book has better battery life and more storage space. I understand that it often can't be helped, but I encourage you to put human psychology under a critical microscope and attempt to transcend your biology during the process of thinking critically.Manch - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
Please provide links for this massive hinge failure bc I cant find it.jlabelle2 - Friday, January 27, 2017 - link
- Unique doesn't automatically mean "better." I realize you want to defend this for psychological rather than practical reasons and that's completely okay.Correct (1st sentence) and wrong (2nd sentence).
And this is why I make a difference between the fixed trackpad and home button of the iPhone / Mac that serve absolutely no purpose compared to the SB hinge that have a clear functionality of pushing the screen further away of the base when open (to counteract its weight).
On top of that, it helps avoiding marking of the key on the screen but it is not its primary function.
Those have been explained to y ou but you still dismiss those and I don't know why even if you try to put some psychology into that whereas it is basic proven fact.
sorten - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Apple only has 5% of the PC market, and yet we still take them seriously. Right? The Surface line has been very successful and very profitable for Microsoft. The Surface line has also brought innovation and excitement back into the PC market.hlovatt - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Apple sells about 5 million macs per quarter and Microsoft sells about 1 million surface branded computers per quarter. Therefore Apple is significantly bigger than Microsoft in sales, the difference is even more in terms of revenue.However, despite the low sales of surface I am glad that Anandtech covers the surface range since they are innovative. I would also like to see more Apple coverage, likewise because it is innovative.
In general, I am keen on reviews of niche products and I am bored by reviews of mainstream except for providing a benchmark to judge the innovative products against.
fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
What exactly has Apple innovated in the last ten years?hlovatt - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Gee let me think for a second: iPhone, iPad, retina displays, gloss displays, uni-bodied products, all day battery life for laptops, touch pads on desktops, iMac style all-in-ones (which the studio owes a great deal to), ...Got bored if thinking of things, who do you suggest has done more?
fanofanand - Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - link
So Apple's innovation is taking someone else's idea and improving on it? And that impresses you? They didn't invent the smart phone, they didn't invent the tablet design or form-factor, retina is a marketing term, not anything "real". Glossy displays reflect light more and are difficult to see in several situations, they weren't the first to do an all-in-one, and what on earth do you mean by "touch pads on desktops"?Sorry but your list is weak, and is nothing but Apple taking other's ideas and running with it. Apple's only true "innovation" is making things pretty, and simple enough for tech illiterate folks to use them.
simonm - Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - link
And adding to hlovatt's list:Mostly solid-state trackpads with very realistic click sensation, MagSafe (RIP), best fingerprint reader, Thunderbolt, pressure sensitive phone screens. Lightning connector, which despite being propriotory is actually very good (I've had numerous micro USB cables break on me). Ultra-slim laptops. Plenty of software tech underpinning OS X (I refuse to call it macOS for a few years). Pushing to have sRGB phased out. Pushing adoption of USB-C (and collaborating on the spec).
The company may be greedy and risking their competitiveness but they have some good innovative tech that keeps them in the business. To say Apple isn't innovative is kind of a troll-worthy comment.
fanofanand - Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - link
TB was designed and invented by Intel, not Apple. solid-state trackpads? You realize they don't build those right? Pressure sensitive phone screens have been around for years. Best fingerprint reader is an opinion not a fact that can be validated. Ultra slim laptops are the bane of actual computing, they take dramatically reduced internals and jack up the price because "thin". "pushing adoption of USB-C" so now that's an innovation? I think your love of Apple has blinded you to the truth. Seriously, you said "with a very realistic click sensation" wtf does that even mean? Who decides what a "realistic click sensation" is? Pathetic fanboys.jlabelle2 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Yes Apple has realized really some innovation, but as Samsung or LG or Microsoft or others.But they have also push a lot of standard things with marketing terms to try to appropriate themselves a perception of innovation (high resolution screen, Thunderbolt, all-in-one..) or try to make "different" without advantages and tried to push that as innovative: glossy screen (often necessary with touchscreen tech but avoidable for non touch screen Mac), fix simulated trackpad (which is a complete non sense as the gain of place with the motor unexistant and worse than a real one), only USB-C ports, touch pad for desktop...
At last, they are very good at battery life but when it is at the expense of a TN low resolution non-touch screen like the iPad Air, it is just a different set of compromise than others.
And the lightning cables of Apple are abn absolute chores. They last 2-4 months in average and I must have had more than 10 cables failing as regularly as a clock. This is not per see a problem of the Lightning port but the construction but still...
osxandwindows - Wednesday, February 1, 2017 - link
Apple pay, the first real mobile payments solution, airpods, it changed the wireless headphone market for the better, the smartwatch, little features with new updates and the new watch are innovative, little things that turn out to be really useful.warrenk81 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
what does this sentence mean? "It would be great to see backlighting as well, but that is also not missing."Does it have lights or not?
Ryan Smith - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
One too many negations, it seems. Let's try this: "It would be great to see backlighting on this keyboard as well, but that is also absent"melgross - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
About the review. There are a number of errors in areas in which the reviewer doesn't seem to understand,D65 is NOT daylight, the concept of what daylight is is very complex. For many decades, daylight has been standardized as 5.6K, not 6.5K. The reason why D65 was invented wasn't to simulate daylight, but because of practical graphics standards reasoning.
D5 has been the graphics standard going back a very long time. Every light box used for color was D5. So were print view boxes and such. The problem was that in the beginning days of computers entering the graphics space, a problem came up.
While my Barco monitors, in my place, that cost $16,000, could reach D5 calibration, no other could. The problem was that the monitors couldn't be made to display enough brightness. As a result, calibrating to D5 left us with a fairly dim, and very yellow screen. Since the red and green couldn't be brought up enough, the blue needed to be turned down, leaving that horrible screen. The barco was the only monitor that had enough brightness.
So there was much discussion, and as a result, D65 was decided upon as a compromise. It could easily be calibrated to using most high quality graphics monitors, and so that became the standard.
Now, we thing of D65 as daylight, but it isn't. Daylight varies from about D22 to about D20.0 in other words, about 2.2K to about 20K. Where you are in the world, at any given time of the day, or year, will determine what that point is, and it doesn't average D65.
It's why when a photo is taken with sunlight and open shade, the sun portion is very yellow, and the shade is mostly cyan.
This may seem to be a little point to make, but I see people misunderstanding this so often, it's frustrating. I ran a large commercial photo lab in NYC for many years, and we were one of the first to begin to go digital in 1988.
By the way, Windows has never had effective color management. Individual developers such as Adobe have had to write their own management software, which isn't usable systemwide. That means that if you have anything other than an image that is using the sRGB gamut, it won't be correct except when running in a color managed app.
Windows 10 is the first Windows OS to have a working color management system built-in, but it comes turned off, because turning it on at this late stage screws up everything else in Windows, and it's very buggy. Maybe someday, that will change. But for now, you can't view two images with differing gamuts side by side in Windows. Only one will ever show correctly.
This is one reason doing commercial color work on this will be a major headache.
Brandon Chester - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
All CIE standard illuminants from series D are designed to simulate daylight. I believe by D5 you mean D50, which has a lower CCT than D65. The review is not incorrect in describing D65 as representing daylight. In fact, the actual spec states that D65 should be used for all colorimetric calculations requiring a value to represent daylight. I encourage you to read ISO 11664-2.You are correct on companies having to roll their own color management. However, Windows 10 still uses WCS, it is just as unusable as before, and neither Win32 nor UWP integrate it at all, so there is not some working CMM that is just turned off. This is why brand new UWP apps like Photos and Microsoft Edge still aren't color managed, which would be implicit in a system where the underlying graphics framework is color managed and thus any component that uses it for drawing is color managed.
melgross - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Yes, D50, but, hese color spaces do not actually represent daylight. They represent a convenient compromise that allows equipment to be made and maintained, while giving some "sort" of recognizable color while point.This is why the concept of daylight has varied so much over time. I know ISO 11664-2, because I was one of those who was consulted on this standard way back then. As I say, all of these various standards are mechanical approximations of something natural.
So, for example, what is a proper white point? Well, we really don't know. Should it be represented by something that supposedly looks something like "natural" light, whatever that is? Should it be represented by our own eye/brain combination which is most sensitive to yellow/green?
So when you look at the sky, it's about 20K. But that's not what's always reflected off an object, which could be closer to 3K, which is what we're looking at, and what our brain recognizes as "correct", with its ability to adjust its perception to various light sources.
I've undergone many permutations of these questions over the decades. And it will change again.
I did say that WCS is so buggy that it's still turned off. But that's not the only reason. Microsoft's customers don't care about color management in a large enough percentage for Microsoft to really care. They only added this, years ago, to satisfy those screaming for it, but without bothering to really work on it. Enough said, they think, that it's there.
You basically said what I did, it with more explanation. Yeah, it's always been a mess, and it's not likely to be fixed anytime soon. Android, by the way, has no color management whatsoever, and isn't likely to get any, which is why wide band screens on Android products are almost useless.
id4andrei - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I'm curious, in the case of something like a Samsung Galaxy phone, when you select the supposedly exceptionally accurate "basic" profile is that not akin to switching colorspaces on the Studio? I mean Samsung does not use pure Android which as you said is completely inept at color management, but a modified and skinned Android that might have some rudimentary color management. Is it not?Brett Howse - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
How do I put this. If there was color management, it wouldn't matter what gamut the display was able to use, since the colors would be transformed to fit that color space, assuming the display color space covers both. So, as an example, if you were viewing a sRGB photo on a P3 D65 display, the colors would be correct because there is color management, and it knows the photo is sRGB, and it knows the display is P3 D65, so it can use some math to put the sRGB photo into the correct P3 D65 space.If you don't have color management, and something is 85% red in sRGB, but your display is P3 D65, it will appear as 85% of the larger space, and would be oversaturated.
We should really have Brandon write up a piece on this outside of the few times he's addressed it.
Some Windows apps do have color management, and some respect the color management in Windows, but most do not. For instance the old Photo Viewer does work, but the new UWP Photos app has no color management. Apps like Adobe Photoshop have written their own color management, so they generally work well.
id4andrei - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
Aha so viewing a random sRGB picture on your presumably AdobeRGB Android smartphone would look waaaay off. While an AdobeRGB picture would look right.Brett Howse - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
Exactly, and that's the case on Android. iOS has color management, so the P3 D65 displays they've started using don't suffer from this issue.Icehawk - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
I bet this is why colors were off viewing a file in the new Photo app (like way off) but using the old Photo Viewer it looked right.jlabelle2 - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
if you have a wide gamut screen (wider than sRGB), then yes.That is why on Android, every screen with a wider gamut than sRGB is very bad.
Even on Windows, it is really a chore as most of the time is spent in web browser (some are color managed though like Firefox) or Windows app or standard programs which are not color managed.
Really, this toggle switch on the Studio is really the best solution so far on Windows (short of Microsoft implementing a system wide color management) and I wish they would allow that on any machine and let us store the ICC profile we want inside.
fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
"So, for example, what is a proper white point? Well, we really don't know. "In other words you are complaining that the author wasn't accurately describing true white point when you say yourself that nobody knows. Why do I get the feeling you just wanted a place to brag about your extensive understanding of color management? Why did you feel the need to cite the cost of your incredible monitor that no other monitor can touch? If you feel the need to lord your incredibly vast knowledge of sunlight please go find a digital photo community that might be more receptive to your ramblings and musings.
id4andrei - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
You can switch colorspaces on the fly. Not ideal, as the review already mentioned, but good enough for now. Furthermore this isn't exclusively targeted towards color sensitive work. Even simple document work benefits hugely from the form factor. Not to mention sketching/drawing.melgross - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
It's not actually useful when doing precise color work, because you need both images on the screen at the same time, often enough. You do need to see how an Adobe RGB/HSB/Hex image looks after if been either converted to sRGB, or assigned an sRGB profile. No systemwide color mange,Win 10 means you can't do that. Well, not easily.jlabelle2 - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
If you are using a color managed application (like Photoshop), you can see both images (one in rRGB and the other in whatever color space), side by side.Your comment makes no sense. It is true that not all programs (and none of modern Store app) are color managed but for the one that are, there is no issue.
Brandon Chester - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
It's not good enough for now, it's useless for a plethora of circumstances where wide color would be beneficial alongside existing sRGB content.jlabelle2 - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Your wording is not precise enough Brandon. You can have sRGB content that is correctly displayed if it is from a color managed application.What you should say is that it is an issue for all apps and programs which are NOT color managed (irrespective of the content color space -except if it is by chance exactly matching the one from the screen-).
That is why, with this current limitation, at least, this switch on the Action Center is just the best solution I have seen on this, ever. Once you are done working with various gamut content en color managed applications (Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One Pro, Irfanview, various video editors...) that display properly the content, you can switch to sRGB for web browsing, email, or other tasks using non color managed application.
vLsL2VnDmWjoTByaVLxb - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
> "Windows 10 is the first Windows OS to have a working color management system built-in, but it comes turned off, because turning it on at this late stage screws up everything else in Windows, and it's very buggy."It isn't working, if it's buggy.
lilmoe - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I have three major issues with this PC:1) The base model. At that price they should have opted for the middle specs (6820HQ, 16GB of RAM), a 512GB NVMe SSD and non of the hybrid BS. Also the graphics card should have been the equivalent pro-grade Quadro which works better, and more reliable with the pro software this PC is aimed at. They should have also offered Mobile Xeon SKUs with ECC RAM.
2) Really? No USB-C and Thunderbolt 3? I mean, this IS the type of PC you'd want to connect an external GPU to, and/or other high performance peripherals. I mean, it IS dedicated to pros, right?
3) No HDMI/DP in. No matter how good this screen is, it's nothing more than junk 3-4 years later when the hardware in the base is obsolete.....
No good, Microsoft. The negatives far outweigh the positives.... It wont get any recommends from me to anyone who isn't interested in burning $$$$$.
Michael Bay - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
If last three years in CPUs is anything to go by, it will be just fine three years in the future.Manch - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Yup. Also, you could if you really needed the additional computing power of a newer box just run an app remotely.lilmoe - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
CPUs are one thing, and so is storage (somewhat). But what about the GPU? RAM? PORTS?Your argument would have been someone acceptable if the Studio had more expandability options as I mentioned in the other 2 points.
Icehawk - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Heck, more like 6 at this point.Gadgety - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Exactly. I know the base will age very quickly, preaged, even, but I still want one even it if it's just to browsethe web, browse and control my media and playing with occasional drawing. So Microsoft has succeeded in creating the want factor. That in itself is quite an achievement. I won't be getting one, though. Now, I might have if the base was upgradeable, or even more likely, if the screen was sold separately.
melgross - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Well, see, here's the problem. You say that you want one, but that you won't get one. That's what most people will be saying.Brett Howse - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
That's what want means. Otherwise you'd say havevoicequal - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
Doesn't much matter who wants one - Microsoft store is showing two month lead times on the two low end models, and a five month lead time on the high end i7.jvl - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Is there an array of microphones in there somewhere?Seems like a really nice machine. Bit expensive, but surely something I'd like on my desk ;-)
Brett Howse - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Yes there are two microphones in the display as well.Tegeril - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Out of curiosity, why no display calibration (brightness, contrast, uniformity...) comparisons to iMac/MacBook Pro?Sttm - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I can't rationalize a need for this product, and I really can't rationalize buying one, but I look at it and I love it. Hopefully by the 3rd generation they can get the price down to $1500, and I can buy one for the sake of having it.disappointed_reader - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
As a long-time reader and fan of AnandTech, I am incredibly disappointed in this review. No display expert would ever recommend targeting a gamut other than sRGB under Windows. No color management is not a trivial detail - it's a fundamental problem, and color modes are a small band-aid, not an actual solution. As even the (imperfect) sRGB testing here shows, natively targeting P3 gamut inherently compromises sRGB accuracy, which should have been Microsoft's actual target.This display is no "masterpiece" - far from it. Maybe one day a miracle will happen and Win32 can somehow add color management, but FreeSync 2 and G-Sync HDR seem like the only possible hacks that will ever reasonably work.
id4andrei - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
I think the author was praising the actual hardware when he said masterpiece. What you are rightfully complaining about is software.jlabelle2 - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
I read the contrary that in each color space targeted, the calibration out of the box is too notch.It is true that it is an issue that W10 is not color managed system wide like MacOS.
But this is very clever to have the ability to switch from a toggle in the Action Center.
In day to day activities, you are in sRGB.
And when you switch to Photoshop or video editing or Capture One Pro you switch to P3-65. That is honestly a very very clever implementation in regard of the current limitation.
sorten - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
First of all, AnandTech, thank you for the "Illegal Photos" of large breasted Asian women who apparently live in North Korea. Who knew that so many NK women could afford and have access to breast implants?Secondly, I am a big fan of the Surface Studio. I'm not in the target market, but I still want one. If I were to consider it, then it would have to have 1) some usb-c connectors, at least one with TB3 support, 2) latest graphics from NVidia or AMD, 3) latest CPU from Intel or AMD. I'm sure those points will be addressed with the refresh and were a result of the release timing not quite working out.
serendip - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
Whaaa... Where??? I only saw owls!The price for the base model is rather optimistic given the mobile internals. How does the pricing compare to the iMac?
fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Lucky! All I get is 9 boxes telling me why I should use revcontent for my advertising (I don't own a business). I'd WAY rather take N. Korean tatas! (no I don't mean the Indian car brand)BrokenCrayons - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Though it's been said before, advertising these days is usually targeted based on the recorded Internet usage habits of the individual. If you're seeing those sorts of ads, maybe it's time to reconsider what you're looking at on the Internet.Meteor2 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The timing seems all wrong on this thing. With the 'Creator's Update' still months away, why didn't Microsoft plan the development of their hardware so they could include Type-C, TB3, NVMe, and a 10x0 GPU, and just release it a bit closer to the software which is supposed to make the most of this device?It's like the two departments aren't talking...
Shadowmaster625 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
The reason everyone says "wow" when they see the display is because they are thinking "Wow, you just spent $4000 on a $1200 screen and a $1200 computer."jlabelle2 - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
Can you point me out a 3:2 28 inch or bigger touch screen for 1200$? I would run buy such thing if it would exist...Lolimaster - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
This simply shows how shitty 16:9 is for PC's. 16:10 should be the average ratio for consumers while 3:2 for more productivy/reading oriented usage.KILL 16:9.
Ascaris - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Could not agree more! 16:9 has to go.zeeBomb - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
What are some pros of having a 3:2 display again?jlabelle2 - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
- What are some pros of having a 3:2 display again?33% more vertical screen estate than a 16:9 screen of the same width. And usually, since quite some time, documents, books, forms...used to be vertical and not in landscape mode.
chipped - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Apple patented this design 7 years ago http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/0...Manch - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
^^^LOL dude....no...alpha754293 - Friday, January 20, 2017 - link
Are the batteries in the keyboard rechargeable?Brett Howse - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
No they are just AAA batteries, not rechargeable, but you could swap them with NiMh I'm sure.DominionSeraph - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
>Even with 128 GB of cache, eventually you are going to end up hitting the spinning drive for file accessReally? On my SSD I have Windows 10, Chrome (with its cache), a full suite of encoding software, a full suite of image editing software, various system utilities, Skyrim, Dead Space, Divine Divinity, seven full copies of Birth of the Federation, 5GB in music, 6GB in hiberfil, and a 20GB pagefile.
Space required? 77GB.
Valantar - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
"The most frustrating part of the Surface Studio base is that all the inputs and outputs are on the rear of the device, so connecting something over USB, or inserting a SD card into the PC, is not as simple as it should be. This is a form over function decision, and it would be nice to see some of the ports offered at least on the side of the base to make it a bit easier to access."Not quite form over function - the hinge mechanism and 20 degree angle would interfere with ports on all three sides (the hinges fold flat along the sides, and the display either touches the front or comes very, very close when folded all the way down. Cables, SD cards and the like sticking out would make this a hassle, and essentially break the functionality that is the core of this computer.
Brett Howse - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
Yes, it wouldn't work in the current design perfectly (although the SD card could easily be at the front) but regardless, having all of the ports on the rear makes it a chore to access them.Manch - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
I saw that and thought a break out box would be nice. Of course that would make it less tidy, but having a bunch of cables run from around the backside worse.alkonaut - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
Is the motherboard and other hardware in the base, separate from the screen, meaning it could (at least in theory) be replaced while keeping the display?A display this good/expensive *has* to last at least 3 computers - so a definite no-go if it has to follow the motherboard/cpu/ram/ssd to the trash in 3 years!
Brett Howse - Saturday, January 21, 2017 - link
In theory, but unlikely this would ever be practicalManch - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
I think we will see this with an upgraded base ala Surface Book. I doubt it will ever be user upgradeable which would be a nice. I don't know why people insist this will be in the trash in 3 years. Give it to me! If intels progress is any indication, you CPU will be good for a loooong time. Also for what this is designed for, I just don't see the applications out running the hardware anytime soon. With the Creators Update not out for a bit, I think they had enough time and should have went 1060/107 at least for the high end. Overall, a lust worthy machine. I don't need one, but damn I wouldn't mind having one.mobutu - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
I applaud the company for this obsessive attention to detail but what in the hell were they thinking fitting oldtech inside? thats just crazy and goes on the opposite spectrum of that obsessive attention to detail!-new cpu
-new gpu (lol, easily the BIGGEST mistake)
-ssd pcienvme only (I take a piss on their hybrid crap)
-in 2017, any computer should be dead silent while doing light workloads (browse, email etc). WTF they were thinking, designing this device with artists/creators in mind and giving them a noisy computer when they need SILENCE to be able to create properly!!!
-still big bezels on the otherwise wonderful display.
And LOL, ETA 6months for a GTX980??? thats gotta be a joke or something, when your "new" pc is arriving, that maxell is gonna be very ancient tech already, not just old!
As usual, wait for the next wave when they'll learn their lesson. Buying this now is kinda stupid.
mobutu - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
also, forgot about no usbc thinderbolt hdmi dp ... so connectivity also suffers in the curent implementationfanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Artists don't have a clue about anything you just wrote. They will just see the price tag and think "man this thing must be good" and will buy it. Do you really think the average artist knows the difference between a 965, a 980, and a 1080?nerd1 - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
So.. monitor is AWESOME and other parts are worse than $1500 laptop. Why doesn't they sell the monitor+touchscreen as a separate USB-C device, i.e. for $1500? I'd get one ASAP!nerd1 - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
And for remaining $1500, I can build a nice, silent watercooled system with 1080 GPU at least.fanofanand - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Because then they couldn't milk you dry. If they sold this for $1500, who in their right mind would buy the full kit for $4k when they could add it to a $1500 machine that would mop the floor with this? Duh, because profits!BillBear - Sunday, January 22, 2017 - link
This isn't being priced as a tool for home. It's being priced as a professional tool for artists.When professional artists draw, they want to be able to taper the thickness of a line based on how much pressure they put on the stylus.
Surface Studio is just not sensitive enough to get a smoothly tapering line, especially towards the bottom of the scale. This is not a problem you have with Wacom's products.
Ro_Ja - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
Could've used a GTX 1060 for the base model, a 1070 on the next one and a 1080 for the high end variant.Thorin.2604 - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
you need to hackint0sh it - to get a decent Designdesktophasseb64 - Monday, January 23, 2017 - link
ohh my!! Reading first page--> price tag and that small SSD!! Hybrid drive??? 2017!!haha!! End of reading
phexac - Tuesday, January 24, 2017 - link
One thing this review doesn't mention is smoothness of the interface. I played around with a base model of this at the MSFT store. While I cannot say what the models with higher end GPUs would perform like, the model that I used was severeky handicapped by the GPU. Just moving windows around the screen was super jaggy. IMO, smooth performance is key to a machine like that. This is something Apple understands with its devices, both mobile and Macs.MSFT creates a PC based on a gorgeous high definition screen and then handicaps it with an inadequate GPU. It's the eMachines all over again with wildly mismatched compents and crimped by too little RAM, too weak GPU and a horrid hard drive. Unlike eMachines, this doesn't sell at bargain prices.
This alone to make this product a non-starter. You MUST have smoother experience on a computer such as this.
bogda - Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - link
It all looks very impressive but shelling out 4.200$+tax and still ending up with only 128GB SSD cache/storage is simply wrong in my opinion.I am OK with Maxwell graphics since this is not gaming machine.
Ubercake - Wednesday, January 25, 2017 - link
I like Windows 10 and the Xbox One, but when it comes to hardware from Microsoft, especially with niche products, don't expect support for that many years.Examples, Surface RT, Band 1, Band 2, Zune Player. Also, consider little to no mainstream app support for Windows phones. I'm sure there are more examples people can come up with.
jackpro - Thursday, January 26, 2017 - link
Would like to have read on tge pen performancehoohoo - Sunday, January 29, 2017 - link
It is very nice but the price as tested is completely ridiulous.It is essentially a high spec laptop packaged in a big screen. If Asus os such were to step up it could offer the same thing for half the price.
Septillion - Wednesday, February 1, 2017 - link
So the vivid color profile aka P3 D65, is practically identical to Apple's Display P3 color profile? Same P3 primaries, D65 white point and 2.2 gamma.darwinosx - Sunday, February 5, 2017 - link
I use a Mac laptop at work and also have one at home. We have a lot of pro-Microsoft people at work including my boss who is the VP of software development. We also are working closely with Microsoft on a major project. Many of the people I work with got a Surface Pro 4 thinking they would really lie it but all of them are sick of all the issues and the service desk finally stopped allowing them because of all the issues. Several of the developers, including my boss, have Mac laptops on order now.lcf/bill - Thursday, February 9, 2017 - link
Nice to see a timely review of a product.At this point, it is looking like the Touch Bar Macbook Pro review may not be out before the hardware is revised.
IamDavid - Saturday, February 11, 2017 - link
I want to purchase the top level version but I need the ability to connect the audio to my Home Theater system. I only see a 3.5mm audio port so I assume at best I'd have stereo? Any options for have full HD audio out?macmhathain - Saturday, June 17, 2017 - link
I find this product fascinating. I'm not sure I agree that Microsoft tries to add something interesting in every computer since the Surface - they add touch to desktop PC - Suface, Surface Pro, Surface Book, Surface Laptop, and Surface studio. But, he addition of touch to a desktop PC does some very interesting things which are natural outgrowth of touch - 2 in 1 with detachable keyboard, UI that switches between desktop and tablet mode, pen support. All of these are natural outgrowths of the decision to put touch on desktops. The problem is that comes with trade-offs. The most important is cost. the Surface studio is $4000 - that would pay for an amaizngly speced out Mac or and an epically speced out traditional PC. I have heard the surface studio is slow (I don't own one but have played with it in store and based on Leo Leports comments) but what one would expect from the hardware that powers that screen (and the decision to put it into a tiny box). My wife is a professional photographer - and she really needs power in her computer. the size of her imports, running lightroom, photoshop, and a brower continually and switching between them need a powerful computer not to be slow. So the surface studio, even if it would be awesome for the occasional very precise artistic edit, wouldn't work well for the day to day grind of a photographer - and I expect the dame problem for a video editor, or graphic designer would have the same problems with lack of power. Why not attach that amazing screen to a giant box filled with i7s a ton of fast RAM and a huge SSD and a bunch of fans? sure it would cost a lot more like $10,000 - but it would do the job it is supposed to do well, unlike now where it is crippled by a trade off for aesthetics and to keep the price low (you could put at least a few better parts in the little box like a great SSD which would have helped and kept the aesthetics). I am fasciated to see who will be right. Microsoft with desktop computers need touch, or Mac that desktops needs mouse and keyboard and touch based "tablets (although a 27" ipad would be an interesting device for photo editing if it were fast enough and had enough storage)" are the only things that have touch. For me buying a computer in exchange for the additional cost for the touch screen, I'd rather have that money spent on more RAM or a better CPU or a faster SSD.Danilushka - Saturday, April 7, 2018 - link
Such a shame: Microsoft takes an innovative leap past Apple but snatched defeat from the jaws of victory sabotaged by it's buggy unreliable aged Windows operating system and poor quality control.No wonder Apple isn't rushing out large touchscreens: the competition just cannot deliver on them.
Unfortunate because competition keeps vendors innovating.