Reverse chronology again, BOOOOOOOO!!!!! (that was as in boo hiss, not a halloween reference). Anandtech has become like that really hot girlfriend who is incredibly annoying but you stay with her because damn she's good looking. You guys have done so many frustrating things but you are still better than the rest.
I don't mind the newest stuff up top if you are there from start to finish, but it's very annoying to have to scroll down and read upward (particularly when the page keeps moving with updates) if you aren't here at the start or have to step away for a minute. Populating downwards would allow you to keep your spot. and continue when you got back. Also, for the not so small portion of the readership that can't make the event, it is incredibly inconvenient to have to scroll to the end of the article, but not into the comments section, then read upwards until you hit the top, and finally scroll back down to the comments section if you want to comment.
That said, I've been waiting to buy a new workstation for 2 years now, I was hoping quadcore 13" with Iris graphics and 32gb ram in the macbook pro, or a mac pro refresh.
8(
i do like the touch bar and quad thunderbolt, but I am curious if the bandwidth is shared, or dedicated 40gb per port?
Also, sad to see magsafe go.
This was one of the best innovations ever, hands down the charging port is the number one failure across all laptop brands, except macs of course. They should have done one hybrid magsafe/usb3 port IMO. On the plus side, this will ensure universal compatibility for charging i suppose.
Finally, where is my 5k thunderbolt display?
Guess i will have to stick with my 2012 mac mini quadcore, and dual thunderbolt displays at least until the next intel refresh 8(.
Apple im trying to give you money wtf, we need jobs back he should have cloned himself.
I'm not interested in live event blogs at all. I think they're a poor way of conveying the contents of an event since none of the information is distilled into a set of coherent thoughts. Instead we get Tweet-like single line statements interspersed with photographs of video and slide presentations. I'd prefer if AT's staff attended an event and focused on internalizing the information while there instead of attempting to report it on the spot. It think it's a misunderstanding that we need to know absolutely instantly about some new thing as lack of a timely review for the RX 470 and 460 have already demonstrated.
Yes, I realize that which is why I'm advocating dumping the live format in favor of improving the quality of post-event reporting since the live reporting adds little to no value beyond instant gratification which we already know AT's readers have been doing fine without for years.
Im more interested why the apple tv still doesnt do 4k yet, and why in gods name i would want to be watching twitter at the same time as a football game. Honestly, I'm trying to weed out social media from my life as much as possible, not add it to my superbowl party....looks super annoying.
Also, Apple is missing an opportunity like the Nintendo switch, transfer your game from your iphone/ipad to the big screen and back again when you leave. And no before you say it, airplay is too laggy for this i've already tried it.
That site has become extremely left leaning and politically motivated lately, the forums are absolutely full of spiteful hate from feminists, misogynists, racists, and political activists alike. All sides of the argument are sinking to new lows in the argument section, its pretty embarrassing actually.
I pretty much stopped reading about 3 weeks ago, it was getting too stressful.
Actually Ars provides better filtering out of idiots than any other mainstream site. (I don't consider slashdot mainstream.) Try it --- just block out the 10 or 20 most idiotic commenters, and you'd be amazed how much more pleasant the comments become.
While that may be true I don't know why ars is covering trump and Hilary at all. I'm done with it. Feels like many of the articles themselves have an agenda. I tell you what there is a massive financial opportunity for unbiased, fact based old school journalism.
Now that Apple provides instant online streaming of their events, the importance of live streaming is greatly reduced if you have the bandwidth to watch it yourself.
I prefer the follow up posts they make with their thoughts after getting a bit of hands on time.
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I'm still on the 3rd gen Apple TV and I won't update until 2160/H.265 is supported. I buy other media extender applianced to test but the Apple TV still has the most fluid UI.
What's the installed base of 4K and/or HDR TVs? What's the level of available content?
My guess is that Apple has internal benchmarks for when they fell it's necessary to support those options, and that haven't hit that point yet. It's very easy for people living in a certain type of technology bubble to be oblivious to how rare are the toys they use everyday.
I also suspect there's a larger game of chicken going on here. When Apple starts selling 4K content, they will want it all to be in a standard format, and usable on some reasonable fraction of their installed devices. Is that standard format going to be h.265 or something else? The h.265 consortium better get their act together quickly to make that decision, because I suspect Apple has told them "tick, tick, tick, we're making that decision on such-and-such a date, and if you haven't got your act together by then..."
Remember Apple is in a rather different position from Netflix or Roku or even something like Android. Part of what they're selling is a sort of expectation that stuff more or less works everywhere, meaning that there's an expectation that if I, eg, buy a 4K movie on iTunes, I can watch it on my Mac, on my phone, on my iPad, on my Apple TV. Ideally this would all work transparently (meaning all those devices have hardware support for 4K h.265 or VP10 content); less ideal is if, to make it work, occasionally content has to be downloaded a SECOND time, to get the 1080p h.264 version for some older hardware. This sort of goal requires long lead times where hardware gets shipped but not yet "activated". The h.265 licensing BS just adds to that already existing problem.
Honestly I think it has more to do with jacking profit margins ever higher. The majority of apples line is lower end, outdated hardware and consolidated. Like the MacBook Air and iMac use use same internals and processor for instance. But price remains extremely high. I think Apple is deleberatly not using 4K so they can another hundred to the price tag and tout it is a revolutionary feature, this has been the pattern since jobs died
dsumanik, you don't know what you're talking about. MBA and iMac do not have the same internals and processor. Look up the parts, they are all different.
The price is not "extremely high" compared to what custom builders and other OEMs are selling, spec for spec. Compared to do-it-yourself, of course Apple is much more expensive. They don't work for free and neither does any other OEM.
Nor is there a pattern of using features to jack up prices. Apple has cut prices on MBA and MBP over time (until this event) and iPhone has seen many improvements without a price increase. They're actually getting cheaper over time due to inflation.
dsumanik, you're clueless. Stop commenting on Apple.
It's also entirely expected. If Apple goes to Nvidia about a graphics solution, Nvidia says "take a number." If Apple goes to AMD, AMD says "how high should we jump?"
I first suspected it was for a left-handed touch-id sensor. But since they didn't mention that, they most likely simply wanted it to be symmetrical, to hell with muscle memory. I'm with you, the escape "button" is in the wrong place now. If the 13" model came with a quad code i7, i'd be tempted to buy the model with real function and escape keys.
I suspect you're taking the first iteration details far too seriously. It's all just software.
I'm sure that, just like the Apple Watch UI was massively redone after some experience showed what worked and what didn't, likewise the Touchbar UI will be substantially restructured in MacOS 10.13. If something about it offends you tremendously, just don't buy for a year, and see what it looks like come October 2017.
I've yet to see perfect palm rejection from any computer, even a Mac. For a touchpad that takes up half the keyboard deck, that would decidedly be an issue.
In addition, the Touch Bar is just a second screen to break/go faulty, has no tactility/feedback, and is bound to have issues concerning seamlessness when switching from application to application. A lack of physical keys makes it hard to even press simple keys like Esc or even some of the system-specific keys that will be listed.
In the end, its just a gimmick that hinders productivity and use (and gets smudged up, probably looking absolutely nasty within a couple days). The only think I do appreciate is the incorporation of TouchID.
When I saw it, first thing that came to my mind was that Nook 1st Edition had something like this. A stripe of color touch-enabled LCD under non-touch eInk reading panel.
But I cannot really make judgement before I try it.
What's wrong with having a fullscreen app with Adobe app overlays that you're touching with a raised arm all day and moving around to reveal covered sections of your workspace?
You people that are bitching that physical fn-keys are gone are fucking ridiclous. First you'll say that it's stupid, then you'll say that Lenovo had this years ago and Apple stole it, and then other PC vendors will follow suit and you'll claim that it was an obvious feature all along. Same fucking rigamorale every time there's an advancement in technology.
"Advancement?" This is no advancement, nor will it be a feature on most future devices.
Who wants a smudgy touch bar with no tactility or feedback whatsoever, prone to software bugs and incompatibilities (especially with BootCamp), that's easy to break, and adds very little in terms of meaningfulness to the user experience?
What's wrong with having an annoying OLED bar button that you have to bend over, read, and then try to accurately tap, not knowing whether you touched it correctly? Not to mention the disgusting and horrible smudges, dirt, and grime, that will inevitably accumulate.
On a PC, I would agree with you. I pretty much always have to turn the trackpad off and use a bluetooth mouse on PC's if I need to input text, because PC palm rejection pretty much universally sucks.
I've never had any trouble with inputting text on a Mac due to trackpad shenanigans.
re: AppleTV Zzzz......How can people get this excited about looking at TV? Boooooring. To me it feels like a sad attempt to try and "rule" the TV channel - a recovery attempt by Apple after their other TV projects folded, when studios/channels/broadcasters understood that they can't hand over the control to Apple or they will just die.
Re: Macbook Apple is in love with thin and light. Hope the battery lasts. Who cares about 3mm difference? Nice big touchpad (don't care about force myself) - Yeah! Getting rid of function keys is another Apple "let's get rid of something" tradition. For once, I actually agree on their decision. Programmers are going to dislike the lack of ESC key for a while, though. Bring on the specs. Hope they don't skimp on the GPU!
I read it as "why can't you just touch the usual action buttons in the program like how MS has the "ribbon" in Office or how Photoshop has the toolbox?" not "I want an onscreen keyboard or hoverover that I have to now interact with." I find myself frequently interacting with productivity apps like Premiere and Photoshop by touching on certain things or (especially) dragging sections instead of dealing with scrollbars.
On device like Surface Pro tablets, type cover keyboard gets very close to screen. Having additional virtual keys row at the bottom of the screen would not be much different from Apple's solution, I think.
But you also get flexibility in not being limited to strict dimensions of bar. You can put larger, circular screen commands. Two rows of virtual keys. And, of course, you can use complete screen when it suits you.
This does look like Apple is trying to include touch screen into Macs, but without fully going into iPad territory.
Gee, think it might have something to do with the longstanding research showing that touchscreens that you have to lift your arm to access are problematic for users who interact with them for long periods of time?
Not sure where you saw Skylake, but with Polaris they had little alternative. Apple seems to make heavy use of FP16 GPU calculations for their UIs, which nvidia has completely botched in consumer Pascal.
Acer Swift 7, Dell XPS 13, and many others are already out. The Swift 7 has a 7th gen i5-7Y54. Apple could have put a 7th gen in their MBP if they wanted to.
>Since the Haswell generation in 2013, Intel has sold two different kinds of 15W and 45W laptop chips: versions with higher base CPU clock speeds and weaker integrated GPUs and versions with stronger integrated GPUs but lower base clock speeds. Apple has, to date, exclusively used the versions with superior GPUs.
>The problem for Apple is that, for the last few years, Intel has rolled out its good GPUs many months after shipping chips with weaker GPUs. Intel has told us not to expect Iris GPUs or any kind of quad-core Kaby Lake processors until after CES in January. So for pretty much every system that Apple is most likely to refresh on Thursday, Kaby Lake chips just aren’t ready.
>This is disappointing, but it’s also not the end of the world. In most respects, Kaby Lake is an extremely minor update to Skylake that focuses mostly on small clock speed increases and better support for decoding and encoding 10-bit 4K video.
Please.. Its 2133Mhz RAM, its DDR4 for sure, 2133Mhz in DDR3L would be with a ton of OC/ very expensive chips, 2400Mhz DDR4 is cheaper than 1600Mhz DDR3L, so even the choice of "just" 2133Mhz DDR4 is a bit meh, given that any desktop Skylake will support 2400Mhz just by enabling the XMP profiles.
They really should have said "+130%", or something.
(That reminds me of a pet peeve: I hate when people say "2x faster" as if it means the same thing as "2x as fast". 2x faster... 200% faster _than the original 100%_. Thus, 300% as fast.)
While I like the option for 2 TB of SSD storage, what will be the max amount on RAM? Will it come with a 32 GB or 64 GB option? I was hoping to see a revival of the 17" MBP, but I guess that's not going to happen any time soon.
Also, there was no mac-mini announcement. I would have liked to have seen an update to their line and possibly a new i7 4-core based system.
I got 13" MBP 256GB Retina for around $1050 from Best Buy two months ago...I see now the castrated version starts at $1500....The new entry model gets slower CPU, no ports besides the USB-C type Thunderbolt, i.e. means adapters necessary for HDMI and SDHC. At least it seems they kept the headphone out. Basically Apple did increase the prices of their MBPro around 70% overall package...I don't see OLED screens or touchscreens, anything "new" today is not breakthrough for sure.
The only new, remotely compelling feature of the new MBP is Thunderbolt 3 - which they had to gimp by not including legacy USB, HDMI, DP or SD Card ports.
Still no: 4K Touchscreen Edge to edge display OLED User upgradeable/replaceable RAM, storage or battery MU-MIMO (or 802.11ad)
Hopefully we will see more widespread adoption of TB3 peripherals now however, in particular audio interfaces.
Why would you need 4K in a 15" display? Decent colour reproducion is way better than laggy or pentile(crappy) 4K displays.. You will never have SODIMM's in a laptop so thin, there are lots of laptops out there that only have soldered RAM..
I'm disappointed that there is no replacement for the Iris Pro 15" model. I was hoping they would release the first laptop with Iris Pro 580 graphics. Could this be a sign that Intel is struggling to produce an adequate supply of GT4e chips?
Apple got millions of iPad's, thousands of iMac's, tens of millions of iPhones producing billions of photos and now adding a few million notebooks with "wide color".
Whatever that means, it's the most widespread gamut after sRGB for sure and ton of content is going to be required by useres themselves.
Very unenthusiastic about the USB C all around. My current MBP has USB, firewire, Thunderbolt, ethernet, and a power jack. My work machine loses the firewire and ethernet but gains HDMI and another TB. This new 13 has one port after you plug it in for power! The 15" at least leaves you with 3 ports after you plug it in. Which may be plenty for most people. But it seems that Apple is catering to the lowest common denominator. SD card slot gone, HDMI gone, thunderbolt and USB sure, but $50 and $20 per adapter. Funny I just bought a 6S because the iPhone 7 had not headphone jack. I think I'm heading to the refurb store to get a recent MBP that can actually plug into things too.
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fanofanand - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Reverse chronology again, BOOOOOOOO!!!!! (that was as in boo hiss, not a halloween reference). Anandtech has become like that really hot girlfriend who is incredibly annoying but you stay with her because damn she's good looking. You guys have done so many frustrating things but you are still better than the rest.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Having to scroll partway down the page is annoying. I want the new stuff at the top. I didn't know anyone prefers it in backwards.BurntMyBacon - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I don't mind the newest stuff up top if you are there from start to finish, but it's very annoying to have to scroll down and read upward (particularly when the page keeps moving with updates) if you aren't here at the start or have to step away for a minute. Populating downwards would allow you to keep your spot. and continue when you got back. Also, for the not so small portion of the readership that can't make the event, it is incredibly inconvenient to have to scroll to the end of the article, but not into the comments section, then read upwards until you hit the top, and finally scroll back down to the comments section if you want to comment.Meteor2 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I don't understand, Anandtech flips the order once the event is over, so oldest is at the top. What's the problem?dsumanik - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I like the presentation order as is personally.That said, I've been waiting to buy a new workstation for 2 years now, I was hoping quadcore 13" with Iris graphics and 32gb ram in the macbook pro, or a mac pro refresh.
8(
i do like the touch bar and quad thunderbolt, but I am curious if the bandwidth is shared, or dedicated 40gb per port?
Also, sad to see magsafe go.
This was one of the best innovations ever, hands down the charging port is the number one failure across all laptop brands, except macs of course. They should have done one hybrid magsafe/usb3 port IMO. On the plus side, this will ensure universal compatibility for charging i suppose.
Finally, where is my 5k thunderbolt display?
Guess i will have to stick with my 2012 mac mini quadcore, and dual thunderbolt displays at least until the next intel refresh 8(.
Apple im trying to give you money wtf, we need jobs back he should have cloned himself.
Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It's like Cook has given up. He doesn't strike me as a man with drive.Zara Zeeshan - Saturday, November 5, 2016 - link
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BrokenCrayons - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I'm not interested in live event blogs at all. I think they're a poor way of conveying the contents of an event since none of the information is distilled into a set of coherent thoughts. Instead we get Tweet-like single line statements interspersed with photographs of video and slide presentations. I'd prefer if AT's staff attended an event and focused on internalizing the information while there instead of attempting to report it on the spot. It think it's a misunderstanding that we need to know absolutely instantly about some new thing as lack of a timely review for the RX 470 and 460 have already demonstrated.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
"I'd prefer if AT's staff attended an event and focused on internalizing the information while there instead of attempting to report it on the spot."It's not an either/or situation. They do both.
BrokenCrayons - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Yes, I realize that which is why I'm advocating dumping the live format in favor of improving the quality of post-event reporting since the live reporting adds little to no value beyond instant gratification which we already know AT's readers have been doing fine without for years.dsumanik - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Dude, we get it you don't like live blogs...cool.Im more interested why the apple tv still doesnt do 4k yet, and why in gods name i would want to be watching twitter at the same time as a football game. Honestly, I'm trying to weed out social media from my life as much as possible, not add it to my superbowl party....looks super annoying.
Also, Apple is missing an opportunity like the Nintendo switch, transfer your game from your iphone/ipad to the big screen and back again when you leave. And no before you say it, airplay is too laggy for this i've already tried it.
Zara Zeeshan - Saturday, November 5, 2016 - link
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sunnyydv27 - Thursday, February 23, 2017 - link
Thanks, liked the episode. http://stmkeyscodes.netlefenzy - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
This is so old-fashioned. If anandtech didn't have a live blog, I'll just go read ars.dsumanik - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
That site has become extremely left leaning and politically motivated lately, the forums are absolutely full of spiteful hate from feminists, misogynists, racists, and political activists alike. All sides of the argument are sinking to new lows in the argument section, its pretty embarrassing actually.I pretty much stopped reading about 3 weeks ago, it was getting too stressful.
name99 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Actually Ars provides better filtering out of idiots than any other mainstream site. (I don't consider slashdot mainstream.)Try it --- just block out the 10 or 20 most idiotic commenters, and you'd be amazed how much more pleasant the comments become.
dsumanik - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
While that may be true I don't know why ars is covering trump and Hilary at all. I'm done with it. Feels like many of the articles themselves have an agenda. I tell you what there is a massive financial opportunity for unbiased, fact based old school journalism.fanofanand - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Absolutely agree, I removed ars from my favorites a few months ago.Zara Zeeshan - Saturday, November 5, 2016 - link
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JoshHo - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
We've tried forgoing a liveblog before and it was met with a non-trivial number of complaints.klagermkii - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Your live blogs are great, keep them up please!Zara Zeeshan - Saturday, November 5, 2016 - link
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If I were in a situation where I didn't have the bandwidth to watch the video, liveblogs are still quite useful to get an information fix.Zara Zeeshan - Saturday, November 5, 2016 - link
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BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Now that Apple provides instant online streaming of their events, the importance of live streaming is greatly reduced if you have the bandwidth to watch it yourself.I prefer the follow up posts they make with their thoughts after getting a bit of hands on time.
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Apple TV: 'Let's avoid the elephant in the room which is lack of 4K or HDR support'solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I'm still on the 3rd gen Apple TV and I won't update until 2160/H.265 is supported. I buy other media extender applianced to test but the Apple TV still has the most fluid UI.Ammaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Remix IO has H.265 and HDR support. Likely not as "fluid" of a UI as you'd like though, but way more powerful.name99 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
What's the installed base of 4K and/or HDR TVs?What's the level of available content?
My guess is that Apple has internal benchmarks for when they fell it's necessary to support those options, and that haven't hit that point yet. It's very easy for people living in a certain type of technology bubble to be oblivious to how rare are the toys they use everyday.
I also suspect there's a larger game of chicken going on here. When Apple starts selling 4K content, they will want it all to be in a standard format, and usable on some reasonable fraction of their installed devices. Is that standard format going to be h.265 or something else? The h.265 consortium better get their act together quickly to make that decision, because I suspect Apple has told them "tick, tick, tick, we're making that decision on such-and-such a date, and if you haven't got your act together by then..."
Remember Apple is in a rather different position from Netflix or Roku or even something like Android. Part of what they're selling is a sort of expectation that stuff more or less works everywhere, meaning that there's an expectation that if I, eg, buy a 4K movie on iTunes, I can watch it on my Mac, on my phone, on my iPad, on my Apple TV. Ideally this would all work transparently (meaning all those devices have hardware support for 4K h.265 or VP10 content); less ideal is if, to make it work, occasionally content has to be downloaded a SECOND time, to get the 1080p h.264 version for some older hardware. This sort of goal requires long lead times where hardware gets shipped but not yet "activated". The h.265 licensing BS just adds to that already existing problem.
Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Low on both counts (answering your original question) -- but it isn't going to stay that way.dsumanik - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Honestly I think it has more to do with jacking profit margins ever higher. The majority of apples line is lower end, outdated hardware and consolidated. Like the MacBook Air and iMac use use same internals and processor for instance. But price remains extremely high. I think Apple is deleberatly not using 4K so they can another hundred to the price tag and tout it is a revolutionary feature, this has been the pattern since jobs diedpjc15 - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
dsumanik, you don't know what you're talking about. MBA and iMac do not have the same internals and processor. Look up the parts, they are all different.The price is not "extremely high" compared to what custom builders and other OEMs are selling, spec for spec. Compared to do-it-yourself, of course Apple is much more expensive. They don't work for free and neither does any other OEM.
Nor is there a pattern of using features to jack up prices. Apple has cut prices on MBA and MBP over time (until this event) and iPhone has seen many improvements without a price increase. They're actually getting cheaper over time due to inflation.
dsumanik, you're clueless. Stop commenting on Apple.
sorten - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
We're introducing a new app, that we're calling "TV". LOLsorten - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
The AMD GPU choice is unfortunate, but at least it's not last generation.ws3 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
It's also entirely expected. If Apple goes to Nvidia about a graphics solution, Nvidia says "take a number." If Apple goes to AMD, AMD says "howhigh should we jump?"
DanaGoyette - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
My gripe with the streaming is the wasted non-livestream photo space at the top. Put the livestream at the top!Also, why is the escape thingy (it can't be called a "key") not on the very leftmost edge?
Eidigean - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I first suspected it was for a left-handed touch-id sensor. But since they didn't mention that, they most likely simply wanted it to be symmetrical, to hell with muscle memory. I'm with you, the escape "button" is in the wrong place now. If the 13" model came with a quad code i7, i'd be tempted to buy the model with real function and escape keys.name99 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I suspect you're taking the first iteration details far too seriously. It's all just software.I'm sure that, just like the Apple Watch UI was massively redone after some experience showed what worked and what didn't, likewise the Touchbar UI will be substantially restructured in MacOS 10.13.
If something about it offends you tremendously, just don't buy for a year, and see what it looks like come October 2017.
dsumanik - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Agreed edigean, I too was waiting for a quad core 13 inch with 32gb ramnegusp - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
There's a point at which a massive trackpad is disgusting, and actually hinders being able to type well.As for the OLED touch bar, well, I'll leave that up for the retards to decide.
solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
How would it affect you typing on the keyboard?"As for the OLED touch bar, well, I'll leave that up for the retards to decide."
Shameful.
negusp - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I've yet to see perfect palm rejection from any computer, even a Mac. For a touchpad that takes up half the keyboard deck, that would decidedly be an issue.In addition, the Touch Bar is just a second screen to break/go faulty, has no tactility/feedback, and is bound to have issues concerning seamlessness when switching from application to application. A lack of physical keys makes it hard to even press simple keys like Esc or even some of the system-specific keys that will be listed.
In the end, its just a gimmick that hinders productivity and use (and gets smudged up, probably looking absolutely nasty within a couple days). The only think I do appreciate is the incorporation of TouchID.
Meteor2 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
It really is a gimmick. What's wrong with a touchscreen?I don't see MBPs retaining it in five years' time.
nikon133 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
When I saw it, first thing that came to my mind was that Nook 1st Edition had something like this. A stripe of color touch-enabled LCD under non-touch eInk reading panel.But I cannot really make judgement before I try it.
solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
What's wrong with having a fullscreen app with Adobe app overlays that you're touching with a raised arm all day and moving around to reveal covered sections of your workspace?You people that are bitching that physical fn-keys are gone are fucking ridiclous. First you'll say that it's stupid, then you'll say that Lenovo had this years ago and Apple stole it, and then other PC vendors will follow suit and you'll claim that it was an obvious feature all along. Same fucking rigamorale every time there's an advancement in technology.
negusp - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
"Advancement?" This is no advancement, nor will it be a feature on most future devices.Who wants a smudgy touch bar with no tactility or feedback whatsoever, prone to software bugs and incompatibilities (especially with BootCamp), that's easy to break, and adds very little in terms of meaningfulness to the user experience?
What's wrong with having an annoying OLED bar button that you have to bend over, read, and then try to accurately tap, not knowing whether you touched it correctly? Not to mention the disgusting and horrible smudges, dirt, and grime, that will inevitably accumulate.
BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Nobody will ever give up their Blackberry keyboard for those newfangled multitouch controls!dave_the_nerd - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I use multitouch, but I also use a mechanical keyboard with function keys. I don't see myself enjoying this.BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I'm reminded of Andy Rubin at Android getting all sanctimonious when Siri was announced:"You shouldn't be communicating with the phone, you should be communicating with somebody on the other side of the phone"
Funny how they don't say that at Google anymore now that they have developed a competing product.
name99 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
+1Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
I've not read a single comment complaining about the loss of the Fn keys. Nobody will miss them.Meteor2 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
It affects typing as you have to reach so far ove it.It's not good.
BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
On a PC, I would agree with you. I pretty much always have to turn the trackpad off and use a bluetooth mouse on PC's if I need to input text, because PC palm rejection pretty much universally sucks.I've never had any trouble with inputting text on a Mac due to trackpad shenanigans.
Oyeve - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Why? Are you one?Ammaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
They have the large trackpad because they refuse to add a touchscreen. It's a feature.halcyon - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
re: AppleTVZzzz......How can people get this excited about looking at TV? Boooooring.
To me it feels like a sad attempt to try and "rule" the TV channel - a recovery attempt by Apple after their other TV projects folded, when studios/channels/broadcasters understood that they can't hand over the control to Apple or they will just die.
Re: Macbook
Apple is in love with thin and light. Hope the battery lasts. Who cares about 3mm difference?
Nice big touchpad (don't care about force myself) - Yeah!
Getting rid of function keys is another Apple "let's get rid of something" tradition. For once, I actually agree on their decision. Programmers are going to dislike the lack of ESC key for a while, though.
Bring on the specs. Hope they don't skimp on the GPU!
alamilla - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I can't help but feel the entire team behind the OLED Touch Bar forgot about a whole new incredible innovation called...touchSCREENShalcyon - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Heh, true that.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
You think touching your main, vertical display to interact with a disgital keybaord the most effective method?Ammaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
They have a built-in keyboard (it's a laptop after all!). Why would you think they're referring to typing on a touchscreen?alamilla - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
^^^(Written from my XPS 15)
solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Let's see, he wrote, "the entire team behind the OLED Touch Bar forgot about a whole new incredible innovation called…touchSCREENS."How is that NOT a reference to interacting with a Touchscreen?
Ammaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I read it as "why can't you just touch the usual action buttons in the program like how MS has the "ribbon" in Office or how Photoshop has the toolbox?" not "I want an onscreen keyboard or hoverover that I have to now interact with." I find myself frequently interacting with productivity apps like Premiere and Photoshop by touching on certain things or (especially) dragging sections instead of dealing with scrollbars.alamilla - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
^ Pretty much what he/she said :/nikon133 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I prefer full touch-screen compromise.On device like Surface Pro tablets, type cover keyboard gets very close to screen. Having additional virtual keys row at the bottom of the screen would not be much different from Apple's solution, I think.
But you also get flexibility in not being limited to strict dimensions of bar. You can put larger, circular screen commands. Two rows of virtual keys. And, of course, you can use complete screen when it suits you.
This does look like Apple is trying to include touch screen into Macs, but without fully going into iPad territory.
BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Gee, think it might have something to do with the longstanding research showing that touchscreens that you have to lift your arm to access are problematic for users who interact with them for long periods of time?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#.22Goril...
Chaitanya - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
so apple just copied Optimus maximus and now will sue them for stealing designs.jbm - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
They could also be accused of copying the Lenovo X1 Carbon from 2014 :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyPQHkgJd9QAmmaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
They'll still trademark it because it's "with OLED" now. And likely capacitive touch instead of resistive.solipsism - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Now if we can just get USB-C to be more common from all the other vendor.halcyon - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Skylake CPUs, mehAMD gfx, meh
DDR3 (?) RAM, meh
DisplayPort 1.2, meh
Multiple USB 3.1 gen 2 type-C ports, yes!
A disappointing release for me. Apple really is getting tired, old and slow...
ToTTenTranz - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Not sure where you saw Skylake, but with Polaris they had little alternative. Apple seems to make heavy use of FP16 GPU calculations for their UIs, which nvidia has completely botched in consumer Pascal.Pretty sure it's not DDR3, either.
sorten - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
6th Gen Intel CPU was listed on one of the slides. I'm not surprised. How would they have certified Kaby Lake in time for a November release.BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Kaby Lake Iris Pro chips don't even come out until next year.Ammaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Acer Swift 7, Dell XPS 13, and many others are already out. The Swift 7 has a 7th gen i5-7Y54. Apple could have put a 7th gen in their MBP if they wanted to.BillBear - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Here you go:>Since the Haswell generation in 2013, Intel has sold two different kinds of 15W and 45W laptop chips: versions with higher base CPU clock speeds and weaker integrated GPUs and versions with stronger integrated GPUs but lower base clock speeds. Apple has, to date, exclusively used the versions with superior GPUs.
>The problem for Apple is that, for the last few years, Intel has rolled out its good GPUs many months after shipping chips with weaker GPUs. Intel has told us not to expect Iris GPUs or any kind of quad-core Kaby Lake processors until after CES in January. So for pretty much every system that Apple is most likely to refresh on Thursday, Kaby Lake chips just aren’t ready.
>This is disappointing, but it’s also not the end of the world. In most respects, Kaby Lake is an extremely minor update to Skylake that focuses mostly on small clock speed increases and better support for decoding and encoding 10-bit 4K video.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/what-to-expec...
Meteor2 - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Live blog states Skylake, and one of the slides said '6th gen CPU'. Which is most odd, why release new products with last year's CPU?keeepcool - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Please..Its 2133Mhz RAM, its DDR4 for sure, 2133Mhz in DDR3L would be with a ton of OC/ very expensive chips, 2400Mhz DDR4 is cheaper than 1600Mhz DDR3L, so even the choice of "just" 2133Mhz DDR4 is a bit meh, given that any desktop Skylake will support 2400Mhz just by enabling the XMP profiles.
Gothmoth - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
wow apple cheating the imbeciles with graphs again... 30% make for a twice as long graph.ZeDestructor - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
130% faster, or 230% of reference.DanaGoyette - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
They really should have said "+130%", or something.(That reminds me of a pet peeve: I hate when people say "2x faster" as if it means the same thing as "2x as fast". 2x faster... 200% faster _than the original 100%_. Thus, 300% as fast.)
Ammaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Looks like MBP won't be getting Kaby Lake for another 6mo or so. Touch Bar seems moderately useful, but gimmicky.sorten - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
you think they're going to update the MBP again in 6 months? heheAmmaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Based on their every-6-months-at-best cadence, that would be the next soonest timeframe.Meteor2 - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Well it was 30 months since the last update, so you might be waiting a while.SolarAxix - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
While I like the option for 2 TB of SSD storage, what will be the max amount on RAM? Will it come with a 32 GB or 64 GB option? I was hoping to see a revival of the 17" MBP, but I guess that's not going to happen any time soon.Also, there was no mac-mini announcement. I would have liked to have seen an update to their line and possibly a new i7 4-core based system.
Eidigean - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Still maxed out at 16 GB.jaydee - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Base model for a 15" MBPr goes from $1800 to $2400. 33% increase is pretty impressive, even for Apple...Ammaross - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
It's to preserve their margins while actually giving users somewhat modern hardware.Ananke - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I got 13" MBP 256GB Retina for around $1050 from Best Buy two months ago...I see now the castrated version starts at $1500....The new entry model gets slower CPU, no ports besides the USB-C type Thunderbolt, i.e. means adapters necessary for HDMI and SDHC. At least it seems they kept the headphone out. Basically Apple did increase the prices of their MBPro around 70% overall package...I don't see OLED screens or touchscreens, anything "new" today is not breakthrough for sure.alamilla - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
The only new, remotely compelling feature of the new MBP is Thunderbolt 3 - which they had to gimp by not including legacy USB, HDMI, DP or SD Card ports.Still no:
4K
Touchscreen
Edge to edge display
OLED
User upgradeable/replaceable RAM, storage or battery
MU-MIMO (or 802.11ad)
Hopefully we will see more widespread adoption of TB3 peripherals now however, in particular audio interfaces.
jaydee - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
They had to hold back, so they can charge another $300+ for you to buy the next gen.There is no doubt in my mind, base model of the MBPr 15 will by $3k by end of the decade.
keeepcool - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
Why would you need 4K in a 15" display? Decent colour reproducion is way better than laggy or pentile(crappy) 4K displays..You will never have SODIMM's in a laptop so thin, there are lots of laptops out there that only have soldered RAM..
Notperk - Thursday, October 27, 2016 - link
I'm disappointed that there is no replacement for the Iris Pro 15" model. I was hoping they would release the first laptop with Iris Pro 580 graphics. Could this be a sign that Intel is struggling to produce an adequate supply of GT4e chips?awehring - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
What is 'wide color' ?Adobe RGB ?
DCI-P3 ?
Rec.2020 ?
Or a new Apple 'standard', that no other device, like a professional camera, knows?
It appears, they are hiding a weakness (only a little bit above sRGB). But without adhering to standards, you only get false colors.
GC2:CS - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
Apple got millions of iPad's, thousands of iMac's, tens of millions of iPhones producing billions of photos and now adding a few million notebooks with "wide color".Whatever that means, it's the most widespread gamut after sRGB for sure and ton of content is going to be required by useres themselves.
dishayu - Friday, October 28, 2016 - link
"Calling it now: Apple will replace the Force Touch pad with a touch screen once it's viable"So, like the previous gen Razer Blade pro then?
CalaverasGrande - Saturday, October 29, 2016 - link
Very unenthusiastic about the USB C all around. My current MBP has USB, firewire, Thunderbolt, ethernet, and a power jack. My work machine loses the firewire and ethernet but gains HDMI and another TB.This new 13 has one port after you plug it in for power!
The 15" at least leaves you with 3 ports after you plug it in. Which may be plenty for most people. But it seems that Apple is catering to the lowest common denominator. SD card slot gone, HDMI gone, thunderbolt and USB sure, but $50 and $20 per adapter.
Funny I just bought a 6S because the iPhone 7 had not headphone jack.
I think I'm heading to the refurb store to get a recent MBP that can actually plug into things too.
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