With those specs in Europe they'll compete against Android devices at half the price or less from small brands. The business branding is just marketing. In China the Redmi Note 3 Pro with SD650 would be way cheaper. Even Continuum is starting to become irrelevant if Win 10 forces users to dump Windows on PC with it's data harvesting. Sure some will argue that lots of people are using Win 10 but you got to look at who and where. We'll see, do wonder if they'll even have any consumer business at all in 10 years.
Business phone? Or are they using the term to get people to look at Windows Phones as a business object due to the infrastructure and low cost, but then crippling it to force them to upgrade to the 950 with the actual business feature.
How is it crippled, and what hardware features does it lack vs the 950? Performance-wise you get what you pay for, but even with a fairly basic SoC these devices perform quite well.
As far as Win10 update goes, it's just around the corner. You're lucky in that AT&T probably won't drag their feet TOO much once they get the update, with Verizon all bets are off.
No Continuum. We were looking at using phones as a primary device for a large number of our roaming salespeople. Everyone has large screen needs in a workplace.
This is what interested us, and for us it was the order winning criteria to call it a "Business Phone". Not a phone that can be used for business.
This isn't a business phone, it's a phone that can be used for business.
And that update has been around the corner for months, there's still no confirmed date and the 1520 has been omitted from all the release sheets as of late. I won't believe it until it happens.
Also not in the US, so I don't think AT&T or Verizon will play any part.
Continuum is very neat but in terms of smartphones it's primarily a consumer feature at this point. It doesn't supplant existing larger-screen business-class mobile devices (laptops, hybrids, x86 tablets) for a couple of reasons. One, you can't use Continuum very effectively while you're on the move - unless you're walking around with a battery-powered monitor, folding keyboard and compact mouse, at all times.
Then there's software. Do your salespeople only run apps? That might be good enough for some business use cases, but I think it's really more ideal for consumers who can hook their phone up to a TV for web browsing, light schoolwork, Netflix et al. But maybe for your guys that's enough. They would still need to have keyboard, mouse, and a display available.
Regarding networks, I forgot that they use the same Lumia model number across regions. But the update really is getting close - at least as far as MS releasing the update to carriers, probably only a month or two out. After that it all depends on the carrier.
Or, you know, your salespeople are located in the country they sell in and have a continuum desktop setup at home because all they use is Exchange, Office, CRM online and are provided the marketing material that's produced in house in standard formats.
I don't see why consumers would ever need continuum.
The update has always been getting really close, saying it's close and not giving a(nother) fixed date is completely and utterly meaningless. MS or anyone saying it's close now is a fart in the wind.
This a business phone does not make. To me a "business" device is designed to emphasise features that are more business orientated, this has no business related emphasis and has stripped stuff that would have had it stand out from Android and iOS. Hell, even without business features at the minimum they could have slapped a 3 year warranty on it and made it easy to service and even that would have given it a business classification. Computer manufacturers learned that years ago (they also learned to put port replicators on business devices because users like to dock their devices, even if they aren't carrying around a portable screen, keyboard and mouse).
I'm saying that even with full Continuum support and a faster SoC, this doesn't supplant laptops for on-the-go use. It also lacks x86 which a lot of businesses want. HOWEVER, the just-announced HP Elite X3 offers a clamshell that would fill the first void. Then they offer HP WorkSpace which in many cases would solve the second problem despite the local device not being x86. They also stated that they're open to future Atom SoCs but that currently the Snapdragon 820 offers a better mix of performance and power efficiency. Check it out.
Regarding your development teams not wanting to produce dedicated apps: Do they write apps for iOS? Search for Bridge for iOS. Candy Crush "port" to WP and Win10 was compiled using this. Also, build a UWP app for Windows 10 you can write one app that runs on all Windows 10 devices, x86 and ARM, desktop down to mobile. You can even build it with multiple UIs for full (adaptive) Continuum support ala Office, if you so choose.
Let me put it this way, not everyone in our company is going to get the 950 (just bought our first one a couple days ago, Continuum is great) and very few people would want this over the selection on alternative OS's. There's nothing on this phone that stands out as a business device, and our development teams wouldn't produce dedicated apps for a miniscule proportion of our users.
There's no reason why we would entertain the notion to motivate the rest of the company to migrate to Windows Phone, even in the face of a 30% marketshare of Lumia's in our IT department (myself included, just short of 80 IT staff and several thousand total, I know of 10 non-IT users who use Windows Phone).
Microsoft had the potential to release something that would have migrated us, but now they're just trying to play the marketing game without backing it up with engineering.
Oh: Also we want Windows 10 on phones to join a domain. And x86 chipsets. We can't understand why MS isn't trying to stand out and really embed themselves in business with features the competition couldn't match. (x86 on Android wouldn't get Windows x86 applications, x86 Windows 10 on Continuum could if MS really wanted it to).
These would both be "business" features that would stand out, rather than this half-ass piece of tripe.
Oh, they would very much like to have x86 in a phone and llkely already have all requisite software infrastructure for it, but it`s on Intel to deliver proper SoC.
those things would be nice but it's still sci-fi to think that you can run x86 windows software on a phone and having it not be a frustrating experience.
There is a reason this phone doesn't include continuum, the performance just isn't there. If you want it, you have to buy a 950, and that costs more. But that's not good enough for you either.
If Microsoft can trudge along with its phone business, one day that stuff will come, but not today nor this year nor the next.
And that's the day USB-C dock stations and mobile devices will kill many laptop use cases.
I don't see why it would be a frustrating experience, I'm not expecting to run Solidworks on it, but I can't see why NetWeaver would be an impossible task (SAP doesn't yet offer support for Windows Phone).
From what I can see, the most current x86 Atom based mobile SoC's are more powerful than the single and dual core Saltwell Atoms (which we have), and certainly more powerful than our VIA, XP embedded machines that run our ERP applications.
A decent proportion of our users really don't have major needs, but there's a combination of old in-house applications, and new low requirement applications that wouldn't be frustrating in the slightest.
At the bare minimum all they need do is open it up and make it available and I bet a bunch of Indian and Chinese manufacturers would pump a few out and see if it sticks. If it is as bad as you say then MS can turn around and say, "I told you so" but this is innovation that they have available to them, where no one else has the same opportunity, and you're saying they're looking at each other, wringing their hands and saying, "Oh, but what if the Intel chips aren't very good?", "It sounds like it could be hard".
Again, I say they're just playing the marketing game without the engineering.
@Danvelopment: "No Continuum ... This isn't a business phone, it's a phone that can be used for business."
Not sure I agree with ya there. No wait, I AM sure I agree with you. There will be plenty of business users for which continuum makes little sense and a more capable portable device to do work out of the office makes more sense. However, continuum makes a lot of sense when you only need email, internet, and basic presentation materials. You could bring your dock and use continuum on your client's big screen or projector for presentations for some use cases.
In any case, businesses for which continuum doesn't work well could still use this phone (or many others) at no real advantage or loss. However, businesses for which continuum does work can change their work flow and simplify or expedite how they go about business. Hence, I agree with your assessment of the distinction between business phones and phones that can be used for business and the fact that the continuum feature is a business phone class feature.
Will have another look but I've already returned to WP 8.1 once. What makes me wary is MS has dropped the 1520 from its most recent release material, and it was supposed to be one of the first. That tells me MS doesn't have confidence in its stability.
A Snapdragon 212 just doesnt make any sense at all to me, especially in a phone costing north of 200 USD. I do understand Windows 10 mobile is ok running on low end systems, but c'mon, an soc from Qualcom's cheapest range (200 series) is taking it too far. At least a Snapdragon 615/16 would have sufficed here even if it meant a 20 USD increase in end price.
I have been a huge windows phone fan since 2013 and I was really looking forward to the launch of the supposed upper mid range 7XX and 8XX series with decent processors and great cameras. Looks like its either going to be the very top end (808/10) or very low end (200 series) and nothing in between.
I am sorry Microsoft, but phones like this one offer no real value proposition to the consumer. A Lumia 1320 at 200 USD is still a better phone than this, which says it all really.
Agreed. I'm more than willing to give windows mobile a shot but they need to come up with a compelling $300-400 midrange offering. This isn't cutting it at all.
The feature making this phone potentially interesting to me (as a replacement for my 820) is the OLED display with the glance screen. The rest is rather meh... Also I do prefer smaller screens, 5" is already too large for my taste.
Before I buy this however I'll definitely wait for the Win10 upgrade for my 820. M$ fscked me twice already with their sudden change of mind after a long wait period, a third strike and they're definitely out.
In terms of size, weight, and OLED screen, this is really the first successor to the Lumia 925. Unfortunately its almost 3 years later and barely an improvement. Without biometrics or continuity, a small CPU speed bump and slight weight decrease are not enough to get me to buy. Not to mention, the extra inch in height to accomodate a blank space, and replacement of hardware with software buttons, and loss of a camera button are minuses.
@ABR: "In terms of size, weight, and OLED screen, this is really the first successor to the Lumia 925. Unfortunately its almost 3 years later and barely an improvement."
That's because you left out a metric that really can't be divorced from the overall assessment. PRICE. This is not a successor to the Lumia 925 based on that alone. That said, I do prefer a similar size and weight to the Lumia 925. OLED screen is a nice to have as well. Microsoft would do well to push out a similar phone with a newer Qualcomm 6xx series SoC in the next price bracket up from this one. Still wouldn't technically be a successor to the Lumia 925 given that it was considered high end for a windows phone at the time, but it would probably be close enough.
A solid "meh". I'm not liking the "new" Lumia industrial design- congrats MS for making a phone that looks exactly like all the others.
If folx are looking for a midrange phone right now and would consider Windows, the Lumia 640 is a screaming deal @ 40-60$ clearance pricing. I bought one at the end of January to replace a broken 1520 ($$$ to fix the screen on those apparently) and have been well chuffed with my choice. The fact that the 650 has essentially the same specs and lacks the snazzy colorful interchangeable backs only reinforces my decision.
And as a sidenote, the lack of OLED display on the 640 hardly gimps lock screen Glance- the 640 has the same ambient sensor as the higher-end Lumias and will bring up Glance when the phone is removed from a pocket/bag, or when I wave my hand in front of the phone or poke the screen.
I have two 640 phones, they work great as phones. Software is lagging too much though. They are OK for kids under 10....I moved from 925 to Nexus 6 during the $200 Amazon deal. eventually will replace all my family members phones with Nexus. Almost nothing works anymore on MS phones, apps if existing are half baked and buggy. MS had plenty of time to create something, integrate things, etc. They can still do that integration, but it looks expensive, and in my company for example, custom apps are built for iOS and Android for corporate officers and sales. Around 30 thousand people...Nobody uses MS phones. Apps are exporting info from SAP and Oracle databases... I think MS got too greedy and lost the momentum. The battery of Lumia 640 lasts twice longer than my Nexus 6.
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ToTTenTranz - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
Are those front-facing stereo speakers? Is the Lumia team learning a thing or two with the Surface team?close - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
So MS is launching a mid-range (mediocre?) device as their first device for 2016? Way to change people's impression about Windows phones.MrSpadge - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
They released they flagships in 11/2015, what do you expect 3 months later?jjj - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
With those specs in Europe they'll compete against Android devices at half the price or less from small brands.The business branding is just marketing.
In China the Redmi Note 3 Pro with SD650 would be way cheaper.
Even Continuum is starting to become irrelevant if Win 10 forces users to dump Windows on PC with it's data harvesting. Sure some will argue that lots of people are using Win 10 but you got to look at who and where.
We'll see, do wonder if they'll even have any consumer business at all in 10 years.
Mike Jones - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
That's a 5 out of 10 for you. Nice troll but could do better...BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
@Mike JonesI imagined that in an Irish accent. Just seemed better that way. ; ' )
Wolfpup - Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - link
jjj is understandably really freaked out that if you store your files on Onedrive, YOUR FILES ARE ON ONEDRIVE! OH NO!Murloc - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
lol consumers don't pay attention to any of that stuff.sorten - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
Weak trolling effort indeed. Sounds like he doesn't even understand Continuum.Danvelopment - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
Business phone? Or are they using the term to get people to look at Windows Phones as a business object due to the infrastructure and low cost, but then crippling it to force them to upgrade to the 950 with the actual business feature.Lumia 1520 user, waiting for my W10 update.
Alexvrb - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
How is it crippled, and what hardware features does it lack vs the 950? Performance-wise you get what you pay for, but even with a fairly basic SoC these devices perform quite well.As far as Win10 update goes, it's just around the corner. You're lucky in that AT&T probably won't drag their feet TOO much once they get the update, with Verizon all bets are off.
Danvelopment - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
No Continuum. We were looking at using phones as a primary device for a large number of our roaming salespeople. Everyone has large screen needs in a workplace.This is what interested us, and for us it was the order winning criteria to call it a "Business Phone". Not a phone that can be used for business.
This isn't a business phone, it's a phone that can be used for business.
And that update has been around the corner for months, there's still no confirmed date and the 1520 has been omitted from all the release sheets as of late. I won't believe it until it happens.
Also not in the US, so I don't think AT&T or Verizon will play any part.
Alexvrb - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
Continuum is very neat but in terms of smartphones it's primarily a consumer feature at this point. It doesn't supplant existing larger-screen business-class mobile devices (laptops, hybrids, x86 tablets) for a couple of reasons. One, you can't use Continuum very effectively while you're on the move - unless you're walking around with a battery-powered monitor, folding keyboard and compact mouse, at all times.Then there's software. Do your salespeople only run apps? That might be good enough for some business use cases, but I think it's really more ideal for consumers who can hook their phone up to a TV for web browsing, light schoolwork, Netflix et al. But maybe for your guys that's enough. They would still need to have keyboard, mouse, and a display available.
Regarding networks, I forgot that they use the same Lumia model number across regions. But the update really is getting close - at least as far as MS releasing the update to carriers, probably only a month or two out. After that it all depends on the carrier.
Danvelopment - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
Or, you know, your salespeople are located in the country they sell in and have a continuum desktop setup at home because all they use is Exchange, Office, CRM online and are provided the marketing material that's produced in house in standard formats.I don't see why consumers would ever need continuum.
The update has always been getting really close, saying it's close and not giving a(nother) fixed date is completely and utterly meaningless. MS or anyone saying it's close now is a fart in the wind.
This a business phone does not make. To me a "business" device is designed to emphasise features that are more business orientated, this has no business related emphasis and has stripped stuff that would have had it stand out from Android and iOS. Hell, even without business features at the minimum they could have slapped a 3 year warranty on it and made it easy to service and even that would have given it a business classification. Computer manufacturers learned that years ago (they also learned to put port replicators on business devices because users like to dock their devices, even if they aren't carrying around a portable screen, keyboard and mouse).
Microsoft have let us down anyway.
Alexvrb - Monday, February 22, 2016 - link
I'm saying that even with full Continuum support and a faster SoC, this doesn't supplant laptops for on-the-go use. It also lacks x86 which a lot of businesses want. HOWEVER, the just-announced HP Elite X3 offers a clamshell that would fill the first void. Then they offer HP WorkSpace which in many cases would solve the second problem despite the local device not being x86. They also stated that they're open to future Atom SoCs but that currently the Snapdragon 820 offers a better mix of performance and power efficiency. Check it out.Regarding your development teams not wanting to produce dedicated apps: Do they write apps for iOS? Search for Bridge for iOS. Candy Crush "port" to WP and Win10 was compiled using this. Also, build a UWP app for Windows 10 you can write one app that runs on all Windows 10 devices, x86 and ARM, desktop down to mobile. You can even build it with multiple UIs for full (adaptive) Continuum support ala Office, if you so choose.
Danvelopment - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
Let me put it this way, not everyone in our company is going to get the 950 (just bought our first one a couple days ago, Continuum is great) and very few people would want this over the selection on alternative OS's. There's nothing on this phone that stands out as a business device, and our development teams wouldn't produce dedicated apps for a miniscule proportion of our users.There's no reason why we would entertain the notion to motivate the rest of the company to migrate to Windows Phone, even in the face of a 30% marketshare of Lumia's in our IT department (myself included, just short of 80 IT staff and several thousand total, I know of 10 non-IT users who use Windows Phone).
Microsoft had the potential to release something that would have migrated us, but now they're just trying to play the marketing game without backing it up with engineering.
Oh: Also we want Windows 10 on phones to join a domain. And x86 chipsets. We can't understand why MS isn't trying to stand out and really embed themselves in business with features the competition couldn't match. (x86 on Android wouldn't get Windows x86 applications, x86 Windows 10 on Continuum could if MS really wanted it to).
These would both be "business" features that would stand out, rather than this half-ass piece of tripe.
Michael Bay - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
Oh, they would very much like to have x86 in a phone and llkely already have all requisite software infrastructure for it, but it`s on Intel to deliver proper SoC.Murloc - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
those things would be nice but it's still sci-fi to think that you can run x86 windows software on a phone and having it not be a frustrating experience.There is a reason this phone doesn't include continuum, the performance just isn't there.
If you want it, you have to buy a 950, and that costs more. But that's not good enough for you either.
If Microsoft can trudge along with its phone business, one day that stuff will come, but not today nor this year nor the next.
And that's the day USB-C dock stations and mobile devices will kill many laptop use cases.
Danvelopment - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
I don't see why it would be a frustrating experience, I'm not expecting to run Solidworks on it, but I can't see why NetWeaver would be an impossible task (SAP doesn't yet offer support for Windows Phone).From what I can see, the most current x86 Atom based mobile SoC's are more powerful than the single and dual core Saltwell Atoms (which we have), and certainly more powerful than our VIA, XP embedded machines that run our ERP applications.
A decent proportion of our users really don't have major needs, but there's a combination of old in-house applications, and new low requirement applications that wouldn't be frustrating in the slightest.
At the bare minimum all they need do is open it up and make it available and I bet a bunch of Indian and Chinese manufacturers would pump a few out and see if it sticks. If it is as bad as you say then MS can turn around and say, "I told you so" but this is innovation that they have available to them, where no one else has the same opportunity, and you're saying they're looking at each other, wringing their hands and saying, "Oh, but what if the Intel chips aren't very good?", "It sounds like it could be hard".
Again, I say they're just playing the marketing game without the engineering.
simard57 - Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - link
X86 may not be up to the task for a phone especially if you are looking for 10+ hour battery time and a low cost. Perhaps soon - but not yetBurntMyBacon - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
@Danvelopment: "No Continuum ... This isn't a business phone, it's a phone that can be used for business."Not sure I agree with ya there. No wait, I AM sure I agree with you. There will be plenty of business users for which continuum makes little sense and a more capable portable device to do work out of the office makes more sense. However, continuum makes a lot of sense when you only need email, internet, and basic presentation materials. You could bring your dock and use continuum on your client's big screen or projector for presentations for some use cases.
In any case, businesses for which continuum doesn't work well could still use this phone (or many others) at no real advantage or loss. However, businesses for which continuum does work can change their work flow and simplify or expedite how they go about business. Hence, I agree with your assessment of the distinction between business phones and phones that can be used for business and the fact that the continuum feature is a business phone class feature.
xthetenth - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
If it helps, the insider program has supported the 1520 for months, and I haven't had problems with my 1520 since december.Danvelopment - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
Will have another look but I've already returned to WP 8.1 once. What makes me wary is MS has dropped the 1520 from its most recent release material, and it was supposed to be one of the first. That tells me MS doesn't have confidence in its stability.LiverpoolFC5903 - Monday, February 15, 2016 - link
A Snapdragon 212 just doesnt make any sense at all to me, especially in a phone costing north of 200 USD. I do understand Windows 10 mobile is ok running on low end systems, but c'mon, an soc from Qualcom's cheapest range (200 series) is taking it too far. At least a Snapdragon 615/16 would have sufficed here even if it meant a 20 USD increase in end price.I have been a huge windows phone fan since 2013 and I was really looking forward to the launch of the supposed upper mid range 7XX and 8XX series with decent processors and great cameras. Looks like its either going to be the very top end (808/10) or very low end (200 series) and nothing in between.
I am sorry Microsoft, but phones like this one offer no real value proposition to the consumer. A Lumia 1320 at 200 USD is still a better phone than this, which says it all really.
showb1z - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
Agreed. I'm more than willing to give windows mobile a shot but they need to come up with a compelling $300-400 midrange offering. This isn't cutting it at all.MrSpadge - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
+1 for lack of midrange SoCs. They don't even switch to A53 cores on the low end..sudipt123 - Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - link
MSFT was supposed to launch a 750/850 codenamed -Honjo which was to have a Snapdragon 615. Seems all those plans are vanished into thin airDaniel Egger - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
The feature making this phone potentially interesting to me (as a replacement for my 820) is the OLED display with the glance screen. The rest is rather meh... Also I do prefer smaller screens, 5" is already too large for my taste.Before I buy this however I'll definitely wait for the Win10 upgrade for my 820. M$ fscked me twice already with their sudden change of mind after a long wait period, a third strike and they're definitely out.
xthetenth - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
The insider program does work if you really want the update.ABR - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
In terms of size, weight, and OLED screen, this is really the first successor to the Lumia 925. Unfortunately its almost 3 years later and barely an improvement. Without biometrics or continuity, a small CPU speed bump and slight weight decrease are not enough to get me to buy. Not to mention, the extra inch in height to accomodate a blank space, and replacement of hardware with software buttons, and loss of a camera button are minuses.BurntMyBacon - Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - link
@ABR: "In terms of size, weight, and OLED screen, this is really the first successor to the Lumia 925. Unfortunately its almost 3 years later and barely an improvement."That's because you left out a metric that really can't be divorced from the overall assessment. PRICE. This is not a successor to the Lumia 925 based on that alone. That said, I do prefer a similar size and weight to the Lumia 925. OLED screen is a nice to have as well. Microsoft would do well to push out a similar phone with a newer Qualcomm 6xx series SoC in the next price bracket up from this one. Still wouldn't technically be a successor to the Lumia 925 given that it was considered high end for a windows phone at the time, but it would probably be close enough.
sudipt123 - Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - link
Hope this happens, though a Slim chance nowKateH - Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - link
A solid "meh". I'm not liking the "new" Lumia industrial design- congrats MS for making a phone that looks exactly like all the others.If folx are looking for a midrange phone right now and would consider Windows, the Lumia 640 is a screaming deal @ 40-60$ clearance pricing. I bought one at the end of January to replace a broken 1520 ($$$ to fix the screen on those apparently) and have been well chuffed with my choice. The fact that the 650 has essentially the same specs and lacks the snazzy colorful interchangeable backs only reinforces my decision.
KateH - Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - link
And as a sidenote, the lack of OLED display on the 640 hardly gimps lock screen Glance- the 640 has the same ambient sensor as the higher-end Lumias and will bring up Glance when the phone is removed from a pocket/bag, or when I wave my hand in front of the phone or poke the screen.LiverpoolFC5903 - Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - link
Power consumption will be higher on an IPS screen though.Ananke - Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - link
I have two 640 phones, they work great as phones. Software is lagging too much though. They are OK for kids under 10....I moved from 925 to Nexus 6 during the $200 Amazon deal. eventually will replace all my family members phones with Nexus. Almost nothing works anymore on MS phones, apps if existing are half baked and buggy. MS had plenty of time to create something, integrate things, etc. They can still do that integration, but it looks expensive, and in my company for example, custom apps are built for iOS and Android for corporate officers and sales. Around 30 thousand people...Nobody uses MS phones. Apps are exporting info from SAP and Oracle databases...I think MS got too greedy and lost the momentum.
The battery of Lumia 640 lasts twice longer than my Nexus 6.